This is really, really goodbye for good
 

Before I go on, the Catman DO Trois is happening, so don't worry.

I have effectively removed Flyertalk from my bookmark and wish to make this my OFFICIAL RESIGNATION FROM FLYERTALK.

As my big bruddar PRemEx statement, the pollution from Ozstamps and the feuding and other stuff that's going on this board has left me disgusted.

Wanderlust left the board a long time ago. i should have followed his lead.

SO really, That's it. I'm out of here.

I warned you. Now I mean it.

Goodbye and goodluck.

and Glen, I want to thank you for driving PremEx and me and others off the boards.

I hope you are happy.

No Mark, I am not happy at all, and I am very sorry to read it. I have had no beef at all with you all of 2001, and we have not had even one disagreement on these boards in that time I am sure you'll agree. A lot of silly things went on in late 2000, I was in the midst of many, indded most, and have apologised for that and do so again. With IP logging and the current removal of multiple handles by Randy's staff, it might settle things down after March.

I hope you'll re-consider, and I have a feeling you will embrace Fyler Talk back into your life after a break, as many others have indeed done after a brief respite. As posted on the Ansett board yesterday I'm off to visit relatives interstate on a cheap ticket I snagged today so I will not be adding to any debate until I get home.

Hope you reconsider your posititon after a short recess. I bet you'll be back. I hope so. And most here hope so too, I am certain.

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~ Glen ~

Glen,

Wouldn't you say that you and Catman disagree (yes, in 2001) on you attending the CMDIII?

Dorian

Dorian,

Would you kindly reconsider? Please edit your post. Let's (all) stay out of this. You jumped in before Catman even had a chance to reply.

Catman is appearantly leaving. He may never reply. But at least give it 24 hours.

Thank you for your consideration,

-levi aka eastwest

What?! You must be joking? Maybe you wanna edit yours?

Dorian .. I have never seen one post on that matter where Catman and I exchanged comments of any kind. Randy wants things to cool down and has done a lot today to acheive that, and I fully support what he is doing and suspect FT will be a far more civil place from this day on because of it. Catman may well feel a lot more comfortable in a few days when the heat dies down. I hope so, and again hope he re-considers.

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~ Glen ~

Glen,

Yes, today seems like it will certainly bring about a cooling period for FT...what with so many leaving.

You know what I mean regarding CMDIII...I am not one to split hairs. Sure...there is no thread to reference, only emotions.

Dorian

Way to go Mark! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Sorry to see you go too Catman, your contributions to FT will be missed, and this place will never be the same.

I hope one day to see another post with the subject heading of

This is really, really goodby for good.

Well, I don't actually want to read that but I think you get my point! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

TW

Never say never my friend - just as this little corner of the world changed to inspire this decision - it will change again - and hopefully for the better http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I prefer to view this as temporary - no matter what your words. See you in NY!

"...Never say never my friend..."

Good thing a Cat has 9 lives! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

This too shall pass...hopefully! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Looking forward to seeing you later CATMAN! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Mark, sorry to see you go (as always) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I don't waste my time getting involved in Oz's posts, but I would simply like to make the observation that the people who are 'leaving' this board were here when it was a great forum, now it is not - draw your own conclusion as to what went wrong.


Nick

Like the man says on the Sopranos promo: "Once you're in this family you can never leave." [/i]

Sorry to see you go, Catman. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif


And though I won't see you here on FT, I'm sure we'll share a steak in person in the near future. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Merry, Nick, I respectfuly must disagree. This is still a great board with many wonderful people. It is great to see you back, BTW.

Yes, there have been some inexcusable, childish outburst as of late, but they should be treated in exactly the same manner a wise parent treats poor behavior in their children at home--Rule #1 of raising children.

Praise the good behavior and ignore the bad.

It works for big children just as well as little ones.

I don't understand why in a thread like this people include stupid http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gifs [before you flame me, I am NOT saying that the people who included http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gifs are stupid]. There's nothing funny or happy about this thread. I don't see this as a joking matter. FT - posters like Catman, PremEx etc. = CRAP.


[Grammar edit]

[This message has been edited by NYC1 (edited 03-02-2001).]

Thank you, Punki. I agree. However, I must say that it's getting quite hard to ignore what's happening. I have for the most part, totally ignored Ozstamps/Glen. But hasn't this gone too far? Maybe if we DO totally ignore him and ALL his posts, NEVER replying...always pretending he isn't there, he'll get the picture?
It's still a great board. I agree. But with the departures of late, it's lost a few of the great jewels in it's crown.

Catman- I am so sorry to see you go...maybe you will reconsider at a later date when things simmer down a bit. I hope to see you at the CMD ! I am still waiting for a space to open up. Good luck- I understand your reasons for leaving fully. It is a sorry day when so many valuable contributors have to say goodbye. I will stick it out here and see what happens.....

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MRKEY

Sorry Catman - legal loophole here (I'm no lawyer, but I play one on TV):
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000577.html

In this thread, you say you'll never leave unless asked to do so by Randy. Therefore, you are trapped like the rest of us rats...

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Take a deep breath, and remember what's really important...

Great catch BIM!!!!

You must stay Catman!!!

Will you stay for your Secret Santa? or do I need to threaten you with more of those airline treats?????

Just relax... take a deep breath... and use the gift I gave you....

There, feel better?

William

Since I've seen lyrics by Glen Campbell, Quotes by Kris Kristoferson,etc. in regard to this topic how about a little Barbara...

"Acting more like children...then children"

Punki,

Sorry, I disagree. As much as people on FT act childish they also act as bullies...and bullies cannot be ignored. Just last month "bully kits" were sent out to Canadian schools to help teachers and staff recognize the problem before bad stuff happens.

Personal rant:

In grade 3 I acquired a bully in grade 5. Over 1 1/2 years past and I grew to fear recess and the end of the school day...as we would both walk home the same direction.

Finally one winter recess I snapped. I was on a pile of snow at the end of the ice rink. It was a temporary structure erected with plywood and metal t-bar's pounded into the ground (like snow fence bars). The bully came right towards me. I was in total rage. I grabbed him by his hat and hair and began pounding his head on the top of the bar...which was truly quite astounding as I was just over half his size/weight.

Well, the ambulance came and went...and he returned to school over a week later.

I was never punished, talked to OR hassled again. School went on as if nothing happened...not my teacher or the principal uttered one word about it...as they stupidly knew I was being picked on for years.

Ignore? Wow...that is really tough over time.

Dorian

Dorian:

As much as you didn't ignore, you also didn't walk away, either...

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Take a deep breath, and remember what's really important...

[This message has been edited by BIM (edited 03-02-2001).]

Bim,

No I didn't walk away...I ran...for 1.5 years. Reading problem?

Dorian

Dorian, lighten up. I'm sorry that you feel the need to be hostile. I can read just fine. With due respect, perhaps you might re-read my post...

My point was, regardless of the years that passed, you (eventually) confronted your problem, as opposed to oh, say, transferring to another school...

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Take a deep breath, and remember what's really important...

[This message has been edited by BIM (edited 03-02-2001).]

Catman, please stay. All of us enjoy your contributions to the boards. Kindly reconsider.

Bim,

Don't worry...I don't need to lighten up...you are justing reading tone into my words...I am super calm.

FYI...it would have been pretty tough to transfer out of a grade school in a rural area. I guess I coulda tried to convince my parent's to move?

Dorian

Catman-

Attention getters tend to be very instant gratification-oriented. I trust that you and your compatriots (PremEx,drone, Jon, etc.) have a key advantage... perseverance!

Your patience and tolerance (OK, willingness to ignore) are the best defense against the flamers who count on responses/attention for their quick fix.

Like the consensus here...stick around!

Dorian - I have no wish to beef with you. My intent in the original post was merely to build on your anecdote about the bully as an example to support my opinion that there are better/different ways to deal with the current unrest on the boards. I happen to disagree with the strategy of those who are leaving.

Whether or not you could move away is irrelevant to the discussion - I'm not trying to debate what you did those many years ago.

Thanks for the opportunity to explain, I hope you'll agree with me when I say "No blood, no foul".

Cheers

Say, btw, on the foul and ref concept:

The Rise of the Robo-Ref
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/25/magazine/25NBA.html

If you will all read the posts above between BIM and Dorian, then you will see what this board has turned into. Pretty much everyone has taken something out of each post to twist it around and fire back flames at the writer. This board used to be fun to read and as you got to know the others, you could poke good natured fun at them. Now you can't even post something without being PC and even then someone is going to find something to blast you about.

I made a comment last night regarding if it wasn't for Rudi and Catman, this board might not be here for us to enjoy. I was told that my post was irrelavant. For those of you who don't know, it was those two guys who got the board started again after it was shut down due to the abuse that was posted. I was not a part of the first FT but I started lurking soon after the second FT started up. I am proud of the friends that I have met here and will back them up on their choice to leave. I will probably still lurk but will probably not post anymore as I don't really care to be flamed. Everyone has a right to their opinions and expressions and I can respect them but I don't have to agree with them.

Just letting out my sober 2 cents.

newself:

First, let me state that I agree with your overall premise, and you have every right to comment on or about the status of FT. Free exchange of ideas and or information and the opportunity for respectful discussion/debate/dialog is the ONLY reason that a BB like FT is worth the electrons it occupies. When a disagreement between a few spills over and effects the many, that's very bad news.

Mr. Dorian and I had a misunderstanding, nothing more, nothing less. Minor difference of opinion. Responses were undoubtedly exacerbated by the timing of recent events. Happens every day. I give him the benefit of the doubt that he feels as I do, as he has not recently posted on this thread.

I make no apologies for my opinions, nor should he, nor anyone else on this board, as long as they are respectful. When that line is crossed, problems occur...



------------------
Take a deep breath, and remember what's really important...

Hold it...you gotta understand my personality (as many on the AC board do)...

I am cut and dry and don't mind (have never) posting stuff that offends, criticizes and in some people's eyes is downright not nice.

BUT, I am also the exact opposite as well. I have some very good friends on FT...we share posts, ideas, emails...we catch up when/if we can at an event or city. I am VERY giving and will go out of my way for someone in an instant...even having never met them.

What I wrote to BIM above is who I am...I didn't change cause of FT. Sure...maybe I am posting more regarding this fiasco...but that is because I believe an error has been made by the owner and managers of the board (see my thread in Randy's forum: Could this have been helped?).

I am just me.

Dorian

Oh ya, one more thing: I'm VERY oppinionated!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Dorian

I'd never have guessed... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Actually, I was @ a dinner party in ZRH in Dec and said to an unknown lady near me:

"Actually, most people think I'm an extreme a*shole until they get to know me...then they consider me one of most geniune, giving and reliable people they know."

Well...that was quite the conversation starter!!!

She asked me on a date at the end of the night!

Dorian

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The Global Lounge Project - open source airline lounge listings
flyers'places - restaurant, bar & hotel tips
The Star Alliance RTW Price Chart - by Dorian
The Star Alliance Gold Comparison Chart - by Blondebomber

[This message has been edited by Dorian (edited 03-02-2001).]

Sorry, Punki, with all due respect I must disagree (and I hope you'll forgive the editing I did to the quotation of your post to keep the emphasis).

You're absolutely right that this works for some people - indeed, for most. It is, after all, the main way we socialze (civilize) children. But - it does not work on everyone, e.g., sociopaths and certain others.

If you had a nice home, and a stranger came in and defecated on the rug, you might ignore it. You might even try to explain to the stranger that such behavior is simply unacceptable, and that while you love him personally you hope that he can see fit to conform his behavior to civilized norms.

If the stranger continued to defecate on the rug (notwithstanding his promises of reform), there would probably come a time at which you would either ban him from returning, or if you were an extreme pacifist you might even simply leave the house to him.

In the first instance, if he continued returning and continued his unacceptable behavior and you called the sheriff for assistance, but the sheriff did nothing to stop the behavior, you might indeed abandon the house as simply unlivable. Or you might resort to self-help. In this particular case, self-help appears not (yet) to be available.

Sorry to be so graphic; however, to many of us what has been going on since June of last year (not exactly what I would call "of late"), despite our attempts to be civilized about it and to explain, urge, cajole, sweet-talk, etc. the offender, is the fuctional equivalent of what I described. In this case, we don't own the house, so our options (individually and collectively) for corrective action are limited.

Yes, Punki, there are still a lot of nice people on the board, but the number is diminishing at an alarming rate.

And I'm sorry to see it, but I fully understand.

FT is NOT a house where you couldn't escape an "intruder".

FT is a community of hundreds, where you simply will escape if NOT participating in flame wars with the sociopath(s).

I fully agree with PUNKI ... leaving is not a solution nor does it show "love and respect" for the other members of the community if you leave them alone - over just a few whose behaviour you don't like.

Punki, right on.

I've absolutely no idea what the big deal is, and don't particularly wish to search out the "root cause"

In the words of a valley girl, my response to much of this (and, BTW, much on the internet) is...

"WHATEVER"

BTW, hope you and Joe are fine after the quake...

JL

[This message has been edited by jamiel (edited 03-03-2001).]