The Death of Flyertalk?
 

Every day when I log onto Flyertalk, the topics seem of less and less interest to me. No, its not the flame wars, I try to ignore and stay out of them anyway. As I scan the lists of topics, I think to myself, "Didn't we discuss this last week|month|year?" Other than breaking news about program changes, new offers/schemes/scams, and our personal lives, have we covered everthing there is? It sure seems like every question that is being asked lately can be answered by use of the search feature. It just seems so boring of late. I will definatly look forward to the "all new Flyertalk" that Randy and Co. are setting up, as hopefully it will attract a wealth of new topics, newcomers, and new ideas instead of us just dragging up the "same old stuff."

What's your opinion? Agree? Disagree? Think I'm insane (or just really bored on a Sunday afternoon)?

However, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all (or email it to me privately).

Edited for missing word, and spelling.

[This message has been edited by markbach (edited 02-11-2001).]

Mark,

I agree with you in many ways.

I really get frustrated when reading a post and all I see posted are smileys or "I agree". In addition, there should be some rule against someone recycling one of their own posts to get attention.

But, on the other side, as a relative newbie, I do not know what all has been discussed on the board... and you never know when public opinion or information has changed, so "rehashing" some older subject can sometimes be valuable and worthwhile. Of course, it does not help that the search feature currently on Flyertalk is so useless and time consuming.

I wonder... if Randy eliminated the post count under each members' name, would the posts go down? I get a feeling some people are just posting to increase their numbers... or did I miss it? Do you get frequent flyer miles per post?

William

It is what it is--just like a library or most radio stations full of boring volumes/songs but with enough gems to keep you coming back.

There is still useful information. Newcomers are obviously the greatest beneficiaries but I am still learning things here so I stay. I just don't read every post or every thread any more. I have gotten a lot more selective.

The various charts that were spawned by FTers, PremEx's Unofficial Help desk, Mileage Addicts workshop etc. are all still useful sites and judging by my counters get thousands (perhaps tens of 1000s) of hits per year so are providing a lot of people with information.

Various promos post here first and are quickly history but we get them.

I agree and would like to support you, but with the increasing rise of discourteous behavior on this board, I am reluctant to do so. I came to the same conclusion myself just yesterday--so much talk and so little substance. I used to visit FT several times a day, but have now decided that once a week will suffice. As to Wharvey's comment, there are others with so much more to contribute than myself that I try to keep my post count down and do not look at ever-increasing pointless counts as a source of pride. It has taken me almost two years to reach a count that a number of relative "newbies" have reached in a couple of months.

Unlike you the flame wars and rudeness of some of our members bother me considerably and definitely contribute to my decision to wean myself from FT. Everytime I post even the most innocent, innocuous remark now, I am fearful it will set someone against me. For me FT used to be a friendly, welcoming place to be. If I want to be treated rudely, I'll go hang out at the airport some more.

Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion and my personal decision. I speak only for myself and aim any perceived criticism at no one in particular. If anyone takes it that way, you might want to think about why that might be.

In my opinion, FlyerTalk exists to facilitate the exchange of news related to flights/travels. But most importantly, it serves as a ready support group to those who need advise and help.

I am relatively new to FlyerTalk, and must admit that I have learnt and profited immensely from these discussions. As time goes by, I realise myself asking less, but answering more. See, things get boring and mundane here only if you exist on FlyerTalk for purposes of self-profiteering. But if you would just get across the other side, take on the role of a contributor, and be a giver and not a receiver, then a whole new world opens up to you. And that, IMHO, should be the aim of all in here.

Of course, some people register a nick, ask one question, get a thousand replies, and then leave for good. That's fine by me, because we're here to help and in so doing expect nothing in return. The difference is those single-post guys don't return and say, "Hey, this place is getting boring..."

FlyerTalk will remain very much alive and kicking as long as there are people who are willing to stay back and help the others who need a little push. And think of the number of events that have been organised at which FTers met up in cities across the globe, or packed their bags on mass mileage runs. FlyerTalk is hardly faceless, no, not when numerous friendships and understandings are consistently forged and nurtured through time. And trust me, a smile, a wink or a frown goes a long way to express what a thousand words cannot.

These are absolutely my own opinions and surely not a call to arms. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Cheers,
Maple

[This message has been edited by maple (edited 02-11-2001).]

markbach

You bring up something that we all likely feel some of the time when we bump into that "not again " topic.

How bored you get is a subject of considering your goals for using FT. If you are only looking for what you can get, then perhaps a "vacation" from FT may bring you back refreshed and your memory a bit more cloudy. The same old questions do not always have the same old answers as programs change and all travel industry "stuff" is in flux. We all probably look to get something out of flyer talk from our use, but...

If you broaden your goals to helping others, then there is alway something to answer that is "new" to the person asking. Personal experience "collective" is always changing with the members of the FT as well, so new incite can be offered.

Not many people are happy with the flaming, but it probably will alway be with us ocasionally.

Massive posters can seem to be a problem too. I have sent e-mails a couple times to one member that seems to post every article published. I believe that is inappropriate. It sucks away the chance to get newer people involved in posting and it overwelms the board with "low priority" data. It is like the child in school that keeps blirting out the answer in a desperate attempt to demonstrate how smart he or she is. As long as the subject is clear, these are easily skirted if you are not interested. The person that may be the most valuable to the board is that person that has the most reply post...someone trying to help others.

As you point out, and even more, some areas are new...news, FT get togethers, trip reports, coupons (try sharing all your surplus, it is a blessing), spam (I never read)...

Finally, depending on how broad your interests, to me there are always new things of value. A few hundred ff points here and there are offered up by members often in less that fully disclosed programs that we would otherwise miss. We travel for business and fun. Lots of travel for business is to the "same old places" and for these we have a lot to offer. Much of our vacation travel is to new places, where help from this board is useful, and some repetative where again we can help others.

In summary, I am sure you feelings are shared by many on this board. I also believe you have the chance to expand your goals, and therefore participation, to get more involved. You can expand your personal travel interests and therefore your need for FT or maybe as I said just take a short "vacation" from FT and come back later and see how you find it then. Any help?

Liie Blonde Bomber, I feel Flyertalk is still useful to me, and in fact I know a little more now where to look and whose posts to click on for those helpful items. Things continue to change as people come and go, but that is the nature of things. If I could change some things I would rather see far less whining ("what it used to be," " why are people leaving," etc.) and less assertive discourtesy. But I cannot change those things, so I have to live with them. I try to live with them on FT as I do in the air.... ignore them, and speak out when they get too obnoxious to ignore.

I have never seen any website that came anywhere close to FlyerTalk in terms of travel information and community spirit and I think that this is still as true today as it ever was. I have met many FlyerTalkers that I consider good friends and am thrilled that they have come into my life and enriched it so fully over the past couple of years. Every FlyerTalk event I have attended has added another set of wonderful memories to my life and I look eagerly forward to future FT parties. Hopefully, they will also be attended by many FlyerTalkers whom I have not yet had the pleasure of meeting in the past.

With regard to content, it is obvious that discussions regarding specific travel situations are somewhat less exciting and informative the second (third or fourth) time around, but as Blonde Bomber so wisely stated, there are still enough gems to keep me coming back.

It is extremely disconcerting, however, and somewhat amazing to see that there are people who insult one another and make disparaging remarks on FlyerTalk. I say amazing because in real life I have never witnessed such unkind behavior in anyone beyond Junior High School age and I find it hard to believe that there are adults that still behave in this fashion. I shudder when I see these rude posts and sincerely wish that people who feel the need to insult one another would do so via the privacy of their own e-mail. It saddens me to see these petty explosions drive away valued FlyerTalkers who simply do not wish to be exposed to such primitive behavior.

Randy is a businessman, not a policeman, and it is unreasonable to expect him to play hall monitor to a community of supposed adults so I would plead with everyone who has unkind thoughts to take them offline and post as though their parents, grandparents, children, boss, priest and/or rabbi were reading. This is the internet you know--they just might be. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I think FlyerTalk is very much like the game of Golf. Everybody that's hooked on it continuously says they will give it up. But, almost none give if up, and almost nobody really does anything consistent to better his or her game.

I'm quite new to these boards. I started up posting like a devil (I was craving to become an Evangelist), and now it's more a cyclical thing. I think its natural that the longer you are around the boards and the more you fly, the more frequent flyer savvy you become and the less you will benefit from this forum.

So…. what's the big deal...? Become one of the "oldies" (I'm really tempted to use the term Old Boys but don't want to start a food fight)… take it on yourself to be a host and guide to newbies, spread your wealth of knowledge and experience, just hang around and socialize while connected from some airport lounge....

I'm not sure I agree with those that say that these boards are not "interesting" anymore. My point is: what do all of us bring to these boards to make them more interesting? If we just post and complain that these boards are "not what they were in the past" then I would ask; " well, what did we do in the past to make these boards interesting..? ". It's hard to demand you shoot 90 every weekend if you're never to be seen at the driving range…

I, for one, don't think we are anywhere near the "Death of Flyertalk". I strongly believe we will start getting close to killing these boards, if and only if all of us start becoming free-riders.

These are our boards, let's make the best of them.

(sorry, gotta split - have to go to the driving range)

------------------
Gaucho100K


[This message has been edited by Gaucho100K (edited 02-11-2001).]

anyone for a round of mini-golf http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif?

Thanks, everyone, for your replies. I've come up with an idea, I think "we" should create an FAQ for each FF Program, listing the common questions/answers for the questions we see coming up time and again. Even just questions with links to threads would be cool, since they could then be brought up to the top, if similar questions arose. These FAQ pages could be linked in a very obvious location (such as in the description for thr forum) and also the "Help Desks" like PremEx and FewMiles have created could be there, too.

I'd be willing to help set this up, and compile the links for a few of the forums which I am most active in.

Anyone else like this?

Mark, good luck with your project. Good idea. Maybe talk to the folks at Inside Flyer about it

I don't think Flyertalk is "dead."

IN critical condition... possibly.

At the end of the PIP, November, 1999, Rudi said that the board was evolving and things would change, some fo the better, some for the worse. (not your exact words Rudi but I hope you know what I mean.)

He was so right!

THen I got to thinking... Maybe the CATMAN DO TROIS can be the turning point for all of this.

See many of you in a month!




[This message has been edited by Catman (edited 02-11-2001).]

Don't ask, what FT can do for you. Ask what you can do for FT.
FT wouldn't exist any longer, if everyone, who thinks he had become an expert (in "his" FFP of choice)- thanks to FT would not share his knowledge with others and the newbies. Boards like FT are not about "consuming".

If you just feel getting bored by the same topics again and again (and don't feel the need to share what you have learned here on FT) .... maybe it's just your interest in these boards that "dies". FT sure will not.

These boards live
from those who give

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Bernie - I didn't know about your poetic side http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

With any topic you specialize in, the more savvy you become, the number of people you can impress with your knowledge will probably decrease (does anybody else get these glazed empty looks from your "real world" friends/colleages when you enthusiastically talk about the hidden perk in your FFP?). FT gives you the unique opportunity to write/talk about these things without getting these "there he/she goes again..." looks http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Even if topics come up a number of times, there is always a person behind these threads, and even if the topic is the same, the insights you discover may be different.

The more you learn, the number of people that may benefit from your knowledge increases. I learn things from FT I wouldn't know where to look for elsewhere. And often I stumble across a thread that surprises me. Just an example: I found the thread about comping in Vegas (getting inside information from QuietLion) very enjoyable, even though I will probably not be able to apply the knowledge gained from that thread in the forseeable future. I didn't even know it would interest me before I started reading... I discover those pleasant surprises quite frequently.

In addition to that, those of you that I have met in person have added a lot to the feeling of community that clearly distinguishes this board from many others out there. FT dead? nah... Does it smell funny? well, as they say: degustibus non disputante...

[This message has been edited by Mizu (edited 02-11-2001).]

FlyerTalk is a wonderful community and you should let us new folks learn how it works and how to get around in it. I agree with most of the posts here -- you come in for info, you start to learn your way around, you end up giving other people the benefits of your experiences.

We've already had a wonderful dinner in San Diego with Captain Mike and I look forward to meeting many more of you.

We've already been able to share things we learned traveling and living overseas, and all over North America.

And WE have learned a great deal, and will be better (and more successful) travelers for it.

Love the FAQ idea. It might help reduce the repetitions. But how many newbies can hit the ground running? It takes awhile to discover if people are unclueable or merely clue deprived.

My hope is that you (what is it? a couple of years?) veterans will stick around and see how the kid turns out.

(Fewest total posts of anyone on this thread so far. Is there a prize?)

Paraphrasing Mark Twain, "The rumors of Flyertalk's demise have been greatly exaggerated." http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

(Aargh! It looks like my husband has beat me to the punch – I swear he did not tell me he’d even seen this topic! I’ll go ahead and post what I’d already written. If it’s a bit redundant, well, I guess we think alike.)

If you don’t mind some input from a newbie, markbach, my first reaction to your post is that even with things we enjoy, our interest level waxes and wanes. It would be better to take a holiday rather than burn out completely. And yes, even in my short 2 months here, I’ve seen topics recur, and sometimes felt myself cringe a bit. But no one forces me to read any of it, and sometimes different posters provide new insights on the same subject.

FlyerTalk is a great place to find travel and FF information. I’m sure the vast majority of folks who read these boards leave it at that. There’s nothing wrong with that approach. But some of us get more involved, because we discover a community of People Like Us. I like getting miles, and deals, and most of all having status in travel programs, and that’s been true for 15+ years, but I’ve found that the travel stories and personal perspectives – and the humor - are what I most enjoy about FT. And I’m specially looking forward to attending some FT get-togethers in the future.

It’s also the fact that I have information to contribute that makes FT fun. I’m pretty sure it’s not just a desire to “show off”- that would be very silly in light of the background and knowledge of some people here – but it’s also part of human nature to want to help others, to give something, even if it’s just a bit of advice.

The FAQ idea is good, although my cynical side makes me say that the people who would be most in need of reading it, probably won’t. But with the upcoming FlyerTalk changes, maybe you should check with Randy to see that you wouldn’t be duplicating something he has planned.

Coke is no longer a nickel, gas costs more than 10c a gallon, TV is no longer black and white, and DC3's are not the backbone of the aviation industry.

Things move on. Fine boards like FT get bigger. Much bigger. New people come. Old people go. Look back at any thread from a year back and see how FEW of these are still here posting. It is just evolution. People move, people die, poeple find other interests. Like it or not this is internet life in the 21st Century.

Never forget the newbies of today are the old boys of 2002. Those still here will I am sure impart useful advice to newcomers, and interact socially at FT functions, along with the core of current 'old hands' who clearly will still be here and active.

I posted the above 6 months ago, and it is just as pertinent today. Yes, those who inhabit specific Forums here do often know the rules pretty much backwards. But the rules keep changing. One example - it seems no-one on the UA boards has a COMPLETE understanding yet of the new electronic upgrades, their application 'in practice', and transferability, or more concerning - lack thereof. This is fully three months after they came on stream. Many of the questions about these are being asked by savvy "old timers", not newbies, so a learning process is still taking place by all, for the benefit of all. And would folks have been able to book $27 round trip United fares West Coast to Europe a week or so back if they were not REGULAR visitors to FT? I don't think so. I saw that I could make a phone call and get instant Hilton Gold HH status last week. So can every person reading this post. Don't know how? Ask me, but it shows there ARE neat things out there to learn each day. It sure was very pleasant news to me and the others who did the same. So new and exciting things do turn up.

For anyone who does NOT restrict themselves to reading their own few specific Forums, the amount of info on the General and Buzz and News boards always contains things never previously posted. A fine example was last week's "How to Survive a Hotel Fire":

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum94/HTML/003721.html

Yes, it was rather long, but yes, it may also save your life and that of your family if you read it and remember even 10% of the superb advice in there, no matter how long you've been around Flyer Talk. No matter WHAT airline you fly, we all stay in Hotels.

The wonderful people I have met from all corners of the earth, both here in SYD or at FT events, or whilst travelling are a priceless bonus on top of all the other pluses. Some folks I have had had board altercations with in the past are now good friends after meeting in person, and that is the huge plus of FT over many/most other "chat" type boards.

And that is why FT will continue, and get bigger and always be useful. Quite simply, the last word on safety, hotels/airline/car programs, and promotions etc will NEVER be written. They keep changing, and so will Flyer Talk. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

------------------
~ Glen ~



[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 02-11-2001).]

I log in when I can. Sometimes the info is valuable, sometimes it's not. Sometimes a question is asked a hundred times (such as what are the best seats on a DL 767-300).

As the board gets bigger and there are more people logging on, this can be expected. I do not mind when gehuine newbies ask stupid questions. They are learning and if serious will stay around and get it. If not, they go. Spammers have been around for a long time, they come, they're flamed, they go. The worst flamers have had the same characteristics. I see it degenerating no more that many parts of society.

Hi all,

Yes, FlyerTalk does seem to be less 'focused' than it may have been 12-18 months ago. As with any online area, it continues to grow and evolve quickly as time goes by. Over the last 3-4 years, almost everyone (in the US at least) seems to have gained access to the online world.

Yes, many of the newer members ask questions that have been asked several times before. I see it as part of the learning process for them. In order to keep FT the pleasant and civil place that it is, I think it is the responsibility of the 'old timers' to politely answer their questions and point them to the older threads and explain the ability to search to the various forums. There is no need to denigrate their lack of knowledge.

Although I have participated in online fora for quite some time (14 years), I have only been here for about 18 months. In that time, I have learned much and that knowledge has benfited me greatly. In return, I see it as my obligation to help the others that follow me and to provide information that is helpful to others.

PremEx and FewMiles have pointed to the future of FlyerTalk. Bulletin boards are great for sharing information on breaking news, but not so good as a reference. The unofficial United and American sites put together by PremEx and FewMiles filter and organize info for quick use. I'd love to see similar sites for all the FlyerTalk subject areas.

Many subjects come up over and over (e.g., Which Hilton in London? Which American trans-Atlantic flights have DVD players? Which United flights are best on the SFO-JFK runs?) Wouldn't it be great to have this info organized? It'd take some work for the people doing the organizing, but I suspect we'd have a few volunteers (especially if Randy promoted the idea and gave them server space).

FlyerTalk is fueled by high-quality information. An expanded format could take this to a new level.

about once each decade, every newspaper in new york carries stories about the death of broadway or the death of the musical theatre as a legitimate art form.

ten or twenty years later, the very same newspapers and periodicals have run stories referencing that time period - the period in which broadway was supposed to have been dying - as a "golden age."

UK Stages. To take your newspaper analogy a step further. For 80 years "experts" have predicted the demise of daily newspaper. First the radio era was going to do it.

Then since the 1950s the TV set was going to turn daily newspapers into dinosaurs. Most nodded in agreeance. Then fax machines threatened them. And then most significantly the interent, news websites, and emails. "Newspapers will vanish, no doubt about it".

Anyone seen "The Times" or the NYT, Sydney Morning Herald, or WSJ, Straits Times, or 'USA Today' etc disappear yet? They stayed strong despite the doubters.

------------------
~ Glen ~

markbach: Thoughtful post. I know a couple of things happen for me periodically. Once in a while, when chaos breaks out here, I'll just get sick of it and think "FlyerTalk has really gone down the tubes." Another is that after reading the board for almost 2 years, I know a lot of the tips that I didn't when I started, so the whole whole thing seems not very fresh.

I agree with the suggestion about taking a vacation once in a while, especially if you're getting fed up with things. My experience was that I missed the boards after about a month off. I also agree with the suggestion about helping others, when you start to get to know more and more. People really appreciate it when they post a question and have an answer within a few minutes. It can seem uncanny if you're new to the board.

I guess the thing that makes FlyerTalk most worthwhile to me is following the continuing cast of characters, many of whom I count among my friends after having met them in person and corresponded with them. What gem will punki come up with today? What exotic locale will BlondeBomber fly off to tomorrow? What will those writers par excellence Jailer, Opus17, and QuietLion come up with to entertain me next? and on and on and on. There's a real community here, and when you're on the road in a little room at a Marriott somewhere like Roanoke, VA, working all day with strangers who are pounding away at you, you can plug in pretty easily. I value that, and it's a big reason I stay around.

Rumors of the demise have been greatly exaggerated. I bet the same thing could be said about the board in Mar 2000 (e.g. didn't we just discuss this).

Having a FAQ would be a good idea. Cataloging things of interest would be good. Search need to be improved. Having a set of posting guidelines, and having people actually adhering to those guidelines would be useful too.

FT dying? I am 100 posts and growing. Yes, I do get tired of some of the messages and wish members would be less liberal on the "I Agree" comments. However, like the Internet, this is a research tool. When you go to the refridgerator, you don't expect there to be new things all of the time.
When you get that craving for miles, you know what shelf in the fridge to go to. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Another interesting point. Why do you think airlines continue to give safety features including how to buckle your seat belt? Like the Internet, like FT, there are more and more people being exposed to this new thing everyday and more being born as well. Some will find FT marvelous, others will fizzle after being logged on for 3 hours straight! But the smart ones, will research what they are looking for. This is our community.Friends are made, coupons are exchanged, deals are found and miles are earned.

sorry. Now I see your point!

[This message has been edited by MSP2000 (edited 02-12-2001).]

I still consider myself to be a "new member. I could not stand the S.P.A.M. mail on some other boards. I do find it useful and I like the open exchange. I guess, I have a lot more to learn than the "oldtimers" on FT. Thanks everyone for FT. You have built it and we have come here. Give us time and we will become old hands in due time. However, there is no place for S.P.A.M. on every airline board as seen the other day.

Oops!

[This message has been edited by MSP2000 (edited 02-12-2001).]

Suggestions:
1) Eliminate FT status (evangelist, etc.);
2) eliminate post counting; and
3) keep the registration date.

I think that FT is a medium for FF's to share their experiences in traveling. It will continue to be successful as long as new members come on board and share and older memnbers continue to participate. Sometimes it may appear to be boring to some of the old timers but this is part of human nature.

if you have been involved with FT for a period of time and are feeling bored perhaps you need to start telling people you meet in your travels about FT. My experience tells me that 90% of the people that I ask if they know about FT have never heard of it. i give them the website. This is what will keep FT fresh and relevant.

I totally agree with NYC1's suggestions.

I honestly believe that some of the non-necessary posts (sure, I am probably guilty here as well) are done to increase "status" or post counts.

William

My vote's w/ NYC1's suggestion - registration dates could guide newbies as to who has been around a while and since the number of posts in no way indicates expertise, why bother? It implies a status that doesn't really exist.

I happen to be a newswire junkie, so I don't begrudge Doc his posts - and I find great humor in some of the frivolous posts - even the smilies http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif - but for those who are inspired to add static to get their post count up, well, this could potentially reduce those.

I can't see any downside to this suggestion. Just my nickle's worth http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

"Suggestions:

1) Eliminate FT status (evangelist, etc.);
2) eliminate post counting; and...

Yes, I've also made these very same recommendations more than once in the past! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000176.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000134.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000595.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/001372.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000034.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000254.html

FlyerTalk is NOT dying. It is evolving, and continuing to evolve. Every new user and every new post makes this so.

Some may like the way it is evolving. Others may not. Ultimately, it is each user's call.

If you don't like the way it is evolving, you can consider it "dead" when you no longer visit the site. It is dead to you at this point, but not for everyone.

FT only dies if our most gracious host decides to discontinue it. Let us hope that day never comes.

------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."

While I could care less about the "status" line, I would be very disappointed if the registration date or post count were removed.

It is significant to me if someone has been around and made very few posts--that tells me that when they say something, it is probably really important to them. It is also important to me to see an unfamiliar poster with a higher post count than I would expect--that tells me that they must post in forums I don't normally read.

I get so much subtle information from the relationship between the registration date and the post count that I would sincerely miss those indicators.

Till I can consistently book crazyfares on every trip and score double upgrades on e-fares, every day is fascinating here at FT. All it takes is one unglamorous post to make it a truly magnificent relationship with the airline. And I've only had time to pay serious attention to the UA board. As others have said, you get out what you put in.

If you want to have a great laugh, I recommend: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/004117.html

Punki: I can see your point but IMO it has caused more harm than good. Maybe it's too late now anyway...

So, Punki, is it correct that anyone with a blank after their Registered Date was in a previous incarnation of FlyerTalk? Or, what IS the story?

I'm sure it's very sexist of me, but I do feel sorry for these guys who think that keeping score is important.

GG: My apologies to you and to Punki for being so brazen as to say you are correct in your assumption that those of us with blanks for registration dates have been around a bit. We are part of that horrible clique of "old-timers" so snidely looked down upon (by some) as being too old-fashioned, too bothered by the proliferation of pure drivel, and too unwilling to assist the newbies of the community we forged.

In re: the topic? FT evolves. Evolution is messy. So are dirty diapers...