ozstamps is a TROLL
Dec 2, 2000 | 10:25 am
#1
Original Poster
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: America Central
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Posts: 936
ozstamps is a TROLL
If your first reaction to the title of this thread is "who cares" then I commend to you the 36k + other topics on FT. However, I do believe this is an important issue to the FT community as a whole for it really addresses the primary issues of credibility and standards of conduct. Are we willing to accept a member who:
[list=a]
[*] Deliberately posts misinformation[*] Deliberately creates false personnas to bolster/buttress "their" own position[*] Deliberately creates false personnas to flame/attack others[*] Deliberately ignores this issue by resorting to personal ad hominem attacks
[/list=a]
I submit to you that this behavior is a serious breach of the standards and sensibilities of our community. And I feel strongly enough about FT -- and its people -- to take this unprecedented step in FT history.
For the past four days I have been hoping that ozzie would admit to "their" behavior, sincerely apologize, promise to mend his ways and move on. At that point I believed (later proven incorrect) ozzie's positive contributions outweighed the transgression of creating janejet.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/003806.html
A summary of the above link:
A post is made by janejet wherein "she" comments about something of which "she" should have no personal knowledge. It is plainly an ozzie post. Rudi emails ozzie about it and within minutes the post is totally edited to make it look like "her" again.
Several FT'ers ask ozzie about janejet only to be met with ad hominem attacks, obfuscation, and lies.
Meanwhile, "janejet" replies to an email. The header contains an IP address that traces to a Sydney, Australia provider. It is the same IP address as numerous headers in emails sent by ozzie. [I can hear it now -- Sydney is a city of xxxx population and blah blah blah. Please spare us]
All the while, ozzie wanders the boards, blythely posting away, ignoring several requests to answer this simple question:
ozzie: are you janejet? YES or NO?
For a couple of days I suffer through his ad hominem attacks about my "usefullness" [sic] on the boards, how HE contributes sooooooo much, how no one supports me, etc. As if this were some sort of school grounds popularity contest. As if by making positive contributions we should all ignore his other unseemly behaviors.
And I endured his rather pathetic lie of how many times I have retired from FT, how I go around announcing it all the time, etc., etc. Even when confronted with the facts, ozzie doesn't apologize for his unwarranted and baseless charges -- instead he refers to my old profile.
Folks, it is a disgusting pattern of behavior.
As recently as last nite we had this very pleasant and useful post from ozzie:
Well ozzie -- first of all your sic is misplaced. The plural of crisis is crises, at least it was before we had a president who doesn't know what is is.
And yes, that is my current occupation. I am attempting to keep a family together while the matriarch of that family, my wife Raeban, fights for her life against terminal cancer. It is neither easy, nor pretty, nor fun, nor am I being very successful at it. But it is honestly what I am doing.
And so we come to this fine example of trollery:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/003870.html
I would really like to know how many more personnas ozzie has created. Personally I suspect at least six more but that's the sad and scary part of a multiple-personna: how will we ever know? How can we ever read a post by ozzie and not wonder how many of his "supporters" are, in fact, ozzie himself?
This from a "man" (put in quotes only because some of the personnas have obvious female names) who has said:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../001121-2.html
[emphasis added]
I have always been an advocate of PDFTT -- Please Don't Feed The Trolls but I have never experienced a troll like ozzie. He has come into our community -- our home -- and, as someone once said to me, "pooped on the carpet". He has despoiled what was an otherwise pretty neat place focused on miles, points, the odd service rant, and best of all, comeraderie.
Does anyone remember what FT was like -- not way back in the dark ages when there were a few of us here -- just one year ago? FT really was the premiere ff site on the 'net. Sure there were disagreements, some ugly, some amusing, some simple misunderstandings. And we got through those moments of angst as a community and we learned from those experiences. And there was always an underlying spirit of honor and dignity and civility.
Now think back to the last five months on FT. Think of the flame wars, the posts about posts, and the overall usefulness of the board. Think of the signal-to-noise ratio -- better now or a year ago? Attributable to FT's popularity and a growth in numbers? Some. Attributable to one new member's profligate posting? Yes.
Now put the above paragraph into the context of adding another 1000-2000 posts to ozzie's profligacy. Wonder why so many "old-timers" are crusty -- or even worse, just plain gone.
If you'd like, go review some of janejet's and molsonmiler's posts and see if you got sucked in by some innocuous question they posed or some flame bait they cast. What kind of sick and twisted glee must ozzie receive from his deceptions and machinations...
Personally, right this moment I would much rather be trying to catch the gopher that is eating my granddaughter's flowers. When I returned to FT on the Thanxgiving weekend, little did I suspect this would happen. I came back realizing that, for whatever reasons, the community was willing to accept ozzie's obvious numerous distateful character traits (hypocrisy, inability to accept responsibility for his actions, profligacy, ad hominem personal attacks, failure to accept polite, constructive criticism, etc.). My goal was to ignore him for the troll he is except in the cases of obvious misinformation. Little did I know...
I apologize profusely to those of you who either do not care and to those of you who, for whatever reasons, simply chose to ignore either the facts or the behaviors. This thread isn't what FT is all about and prior to the appearance of the ozzie personnas, it was a rare event to see a thread like this.
My sole motivation for this is my love of FT. Over the course of 2+ years here I have developed deep and lasting feelings not only for the people herein but for truly remarkable place that we built together. FT is too good to abandon to the trolls among us...
My premise is we can and should identify trolls whenever possible.
[list=a]
[*] Deliberately posts misinformation[*] Deliberately creates false personnas to bolster/buttress "their" own position[*] Deliberately creates false personnas to flame/attack others[*] Deliberately ignores this issue by resorting to personal ad hominem attacks
[/list=a]
I submit to you that this behavior is a serious breach of the standards and sensibilities of our community. And I feel strongly enough about FT -- and its people -- to take this unprecedented step in FT history.
For the past four days I have been hoping that ozzie would admit to "their" behavior, sincerely apologize, promise to mend his ways and move on. At that point I believed (later proven incorrect) ozzie's positive contributions outweighed the transgression of creating janejet.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/003806.html
A summary of the above link:
A post is made by janejet wherein "she" comments about something of which "she" should have no personal knowledge. It is plainly an ozzie post. Rudi emails ozzie about it and within minutes the post is totally edited to make it look like "her" again.
Several FT'ers ask ozzie about janejet only to be met with ad hominem attacks, obfuscation, and lies.
Meanwhile, "janejet" replies to an email. The header contains an IP address that traces to a Sydney, Australia provider. It is the same IP address as numerous headers in emails sent by ozzie. [I can hear it now -- Sydney is a city of xxxx population and blah blah blah. Please spare us]
All the while, ozzie wanders the boards, blythely posting away, ignoring several requests to answer this simple question:
ozzie: are you janejet? YES or NO?
For a couple of days I suffer through his ad hominem attacks about my "usefullness" [sic] on the boards, how HE contributes sooooooo much, how no one supports me, etc. As if this were some sort of school grounds popularity contest. As if by making positive contributions we should all ignore his other unseemly behaviors.
And I endured his rather pathetic lie of how many times I have retired from FT, how I go around announcing it all the time, etc., etc. Even when confronted with the facts, ozzie doesn't apologize for his unwarranted and baseless charges -- instead he refers to my old profile.
Folks, it is a disgusting pattern of behavior.
As recently as last nite we had this very pleasant and useful post from ozzie:
Your profile here on FT (and you typed it remember) says as occupation: "early mid-life crises." (sic) I feel rather sad that this is your fun and focus in life right now.
And yes, that is my current occupation. I am attempting to keep a family together while the matriarch of that family, my wife Raeban, fights for her life against terminal cancer. It is neither easy, nor pretty, nor fun, nor am I being very successful at it. But it is honestly what I am doing.
And so we come to this fine example of trollery:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/003870.html
I would really like to know how many more personnas ozzie has created. Personally I suspect at least six more but that's the sad and scary part of a multiple-personna: how will we ever know? How can we ever read a post by ozzie and not wonder how many of his "supporters" are, in fact, ozzie himself?
This from a "man" (put in quotes only because some of the personnas have obvious female names) who has said:
It really is pathetic IMHO to see people needing to respond via this kind of spineless posting, rather than using their REAL and VERY well known user name. But in that guise, they'd never post this drivel.
C'mon .. be a MAN and stop hiding behind this pathetic disguise. I know who you are are now so do many others. Amend the above post with your REAL handle so we ALL can see WHICH regular you really are. And then see what support you get for your opinion.
Maybe you are the sort of person that makes anonymous phone calls as you can't be caught? Or writes obscene notes and places them under people's wind screens at midnight when no-one can see you? I think posting under a fake handle with no name or email is very weak.
I could do the same, but am man enough to be open about who I really am.
C'mon .. be a MAN and stop hiding behind this pathetic disguise. I know who you are are now so do many others. Amend the above post with your REAL handle so we ALL can see WHICH regular you really are. And then see what support you get for your opinion.
Maybe you are the sort of person that makes anonymous phone calls as you can't be caught? Or writes obscene notes and places them under people's wind screens at midnight when no-one can see you? I think posting under a fake handle with no name or email is very weak.
I could do the same, but am man enough to be open about who I really am.
[emphasis added]
I have always been an advocate of PDFTT -- Please Don't Feed The Trolls but I have never experienced a troll like ozzie. He has come into our community -- our home -- and, as someone once said to me, "pooped on the carpet". He has despoiled what was an otherwise pretty neat place focused on miles, points, the odd service rant, and best of all, comeraderie.
Does anyone remember what FT was like -- not way back in the dark ages when there were a few of us here -- just one year ago? FT really was the premiere ff site on the 'net. Sure there were disagreements, some ugly, some amusing, some simple misunderstandings. And we got through those moments of angst as a community and we learned from those experiences. And there was always an underlying spirit of honor and dignity and civility.
Now think back to the last five months on FT. Think of the flame wars, the posts about posts, and the overall usefulness of the board. Think of the signal-to-noise ratio -- better now or a year ago? Attributable to FT's popularity and a growth in numbers? Some. Attributable to one new member's profligate posting? Yes.
Now put the above paragraph into the context of adding another 1000-2000 posts to ozzie's profligacy. Wonder why so many "old-timers" are crusty -- or even worse, just plain gone.
If you'd like, go review some of janejet's and molsonmiler's posts and see if you got sucked in by some innocuous question they posed or some flame bait they cast. What kind of sick and twisted glee must ozzie receive from his deceptions and machinations...
Personally, right this moment I would much rather be trying to catch the gopher that is eating my granddaughter's flowers. When I returned to FT on the Thanxgiving weekend, little did I suspect this would happen. I came back realizing that, for whatever reasons, the community was willing to accept ozzie's obvious numerous distateful character traits (hypocrisy, inability to accept responsibility for his actions, profligacy, ad hominem personal attacks, failure to accept polite, constructive criticism, etc.). My goal was to ignore him for the troll he is except in the cases of obvious misinformation. Little did I know...
I apologize profusely to those of you who either do not care and to those of you who, for whatever reasons, simply chose to ignore either the facts or the behaviors. This thread isn't what FT is all about and prior to the appearance of the ozzie personnas, it was a rare event to see a thread like this.
My sole motivation for this is my love of FT. Over the course of 2+ years here I have developed deep and lasting feelings not only for the people herein but for truly remarkable place that we built together. FT is too good to abandon to the trolls among us...
My premise is we can and should identify trolls whenever possible.
Dec 2, 2000 | 10:35 am
#2
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: YVR
Programs: ACSEMM QRGold SPGLifetimePlat FairmontPlat | TalkBoard Founding Member
Posts: 8,969
Very interesting! I obviously have not being paying attention @ all...didn't realize all the bizarre stuff going on around here!
One question - "to take this unprecedented step in FT history" - what is the step? Just curious...
Dorian
------------------
flyers'places - restaurant, bar & hotel recommendations: http://www.flyersplaces.com
Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm
Blondebomber's Star Alliance Comparison Chart: http://members.home.net/deercroft/starall00.html
One question - "to take this unprecedented step in FT history" - what is the step? Just curious...
Dorian
------------------
flyers'places - restaurant, bar & hotel recommendations: http://www.flyersplaces.com
Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm
Blondebomber's Star Alliance Comparison Chart: http://members.home.net/deercroft/starall00.html
Dec 2, 2000 | 9:39 pm
#3
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Between SNA and ONT
Posts: 1,486
My position is spelled out on this page. Call me George Bush bringing the country together. Or whatever.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../003806-2.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../003806-2.html
Dec 3, 2000 | 9:00 am
#4
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Houston, Texas, TEXAS
Posts: 1,510
I suspect that ozstamps will not post on this or any other thread admitting that ozstamps = janejet. The "hole" that ozstamps has dug for himself is bottomless, not to mention classless.
onefreeman eluded to his tracing of IP addresses to determining that ozstamps = janejet. Folks, onefreeman should not have been so nice. Let 'er fly, onefreeman, totally expose the Troll and ozstamps will not have to admit it. Which is typical of a troll of his ilk.
onefreeman eluded to his tracing of IP addresses to determining that ozstamps = janejet. Folks, onefreeman should not have been so nice. Let 'er fly, onefreeman, totally expose the Troll and ozstamps will not have to admit it. Which is typical of a troll of his ilk.
Dec 3, 2000 | 10:12 am
#5
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: source of weird and eccentric ideas
Posts: 40,059
None of these attacks belong on FT. Attacks are fuel for the fires. Ignoring things you don't like is the key to enjoying FT or anything else.
I have fun on FT, I like FT and I don't let these attacks bother me. I don't understand why anyone enjoys this back-and-forth.
I have fun on FT, I like FT and I don't let these attacks bother me. I don't understand why anyone enjoys this back-and-forth.
Dec 3, 2000 | 12:15 pm
#6
In Memoriam
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: lake forest illinois usa
Posts: 541
The really sad, even tragic, thing is that one person (?) has been able to wreak such havoc in this heretofore friendly community.
Such selfishness is difficult to stomach.
But remain hopeful: the one thing a troll cannot stand is the light of day, meaning exposure which causes it to stand naked before everyone. And this one is getting close.
Such selfishness is difficult to stomach.
But remain hopeful: the one thing a troll cannot stand is the light of day, meaning exposure which causes it to stand naked before everyone. And this one is getting close.
Dec 3, 2000 | 4:59 pm
#7
Commander Catcop
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 10,259
I don't know if it's in the Bible, but I remember my dear aunt telling me when I was a teen and used to lie:
"The Truth Shall Set YOU FREE!
(Well it didn't stop me from getting grounded!
)
But I think of her words now... and it rings truth now.
IF you are promoting false identities then JUST TELL THE TRUTH and you SHALL BE FREE:
*Free of being burned from the "flames."
*We ALL can be free to bringing back travel talk and points and miles and HEART AND FUN! to this board!
Thank you Onefreeman. As I said, you know where I stand on this.
And I remember what a number of Flyertalkers told me when I was so distressed about being attacked and wanted to quit the board: "Just because we are Silent does not mean we don't support you."
I can't be silent onefreeman, for you and for the wonderful Raeban. Others may be but I suspect they support you too.
Nathan Detroit and RIcharde and violist (in another tread Well written, concise posts with words that ring all so true.
Oh BROTHER JAWS: YOU ARE PROBABLY SO RIGHT, AND I GIVE YOU A DOZEN BOTTLES OF SHINER BOCK FOR ANOTHER FINE POST!
And one more thing: nothing turns me off on anyone any more than being a LIAR! One lie leads to another and another. I can't respect a person who consistantly lies or hides behind shadows. I can't.
The TRUTH Shall set YOU FREE!
[This message has been edited by Catman (edited 12-03-2000).]
"The Truth Shall Set YOU FREE!
(Well it didn't stop me from getting grounded!
)But I think of her words now... and it rings truth now.
IF you are promoting false identities then JUST TELL THE TRUTH and you SHALL BE FREE:
*Free of being burned from the "flames."
*We ALL can be free to bringing back travel talk and points and miles and HEART AND FUN! to this board!
Thank you Onefreeman. As I said, you know where I stand on this.
And I remember what a number of Flyertalkers told me when I was so distressed about being attacked and wanted to quit the board: "Just because we are Silent does not mean we don't support you."
I can't be silent onefreeman, for you and for the wonderful Raeban. Others may be but I suspect they support you too.
Nathan Detroit and RIcharde and violist (in another tread
Well written, concise posts with words that ring all so true.Oh BROTHER JAWS: YOU ARE PROBABLY SO RIGHT, AND I GIVE YOU A DOZEN BOTTLES OF SHINER BOCK FOR ANOTHER FINE POST!
And one more thing: nothing turns me off on anyone any more than being a LIAR! One lie leads to another and another. I can't respect a person who consistantly lies or hides behind shadows. I can't.
The TRUTH Shall set YOU FREE!
[This message has been edited by Catman (edited 12-03-2000).]
Dec 3, 2000 | 9:51 pm
#8
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,709
I am not interested in taking sides in personalities.
I am interested in the truth. I resent being lied to (tacitly or directly).
As for forgiveness - IF I need to ask for it from Ozstamps, I will gladly do so publicly and unambiguously.
If Ozstamps needs it, I hope he will extend the same courtesy.
Personally, I hope that it is I who must do the asking.
See the following link to understand what I'm talking about...
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000754.html
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
I am interested in the truth. I resent being lied to (tacitly or directly).
As for forgiveness - IF I need to ask for it from Ozstamps, I will gladly do so publicly and unambiguously.
If Ozstamps needs it, I hope he will extend the same courtesy.
Personally, I hope that it is I who must do the asking.
See the following link to understand what I'm talking about...
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000754.html
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
Dec 4, 2000 | 10:56 pm
#9
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Smoke filled room, TPA and FLL/MIA :UAL 1K and 2MM,AA EX PLAT and 2MM,Lifetime Plat Starwood
Posts: 4,318
Ive looked to see if there is any truth to onefreemans allegations against OZSTAMPS. I have found the answer. All we have to do is ask Bizjet. Look at this:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000681.html
MolsonMiler, said,
I seem likely to be staying an extra nite in SEA Thurs before commuting back to YVR. Not 100% certain yet, (at best it is 60/40) but would be delighted to join in with fellow FT'ers and meet the "man from OZ" if it pans out that way. I'll stay tuned!
Notice, two things. First look at how Molson gushes about meeting Ozstamps. Do you really believe Ozstamps wouldnt respond? Second, you should be aware every possible time MolsonMiler offers to possibly meet people, OZ happens to be in the USA. Now watch what happens on this thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000714.html
MolsonMiler, said,
OZ ... sorry we missed in Seattle last week. I'm in LAX now and will be in SFO in an hour or so - I'll call you at Hotel and see if we can get together this time!
Notice according to MolsonMiler he did NOT meet Ozstamps in SEA. BUT
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000727.html
MolsonMiler, said,
BizJet - It seems clear from the official UA press release Ozstamps provided link to above that ALL flights will be on 747-400, the newer 747-OB types with the nice seats in all classes and sleeper F. This is an excerpt below. So, booking seat 11B upstairs (or whatever) on the entire rtw seems possible. Mark me down as "very possible" please. After meeting you in SFO last week for dinner, I think it may be quite a fun trip!
Now BIZJET met MolsonMiler in SFO the same dayhmm. I say we e-mail BizJet a picture of Ozstamps and ask him who he met. It should be very simple to find out if MolsonMiler is Ozstamps. And if he isvery sick, praising himself.
Last, just for funheres a thread with Jane (really Ozstamps) in her kitchen in Alabama. AND MolsenMiler, All on a thread from Ozstamps. Hes having a party virtually by himself
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000679.html
janejet, said,
Our taxes work in interesting ways. Same State Dept site has a helpful fact sheet on "CHEMICAL - BIOLOGICAL WARFARE" which might be useful to print out and keep in my kitchen. Not aimed at Iran I hasten to add - but just in case it happens one day in Alabama
So, lets clear Ozstamps name (or not) by asking Bizjet
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000681.html
MolsonMiler, said,
I seem likely to be staying an extra nite in SEA Thurs before commuting back to YVR. Not 100% certain yet, (at best it is 60/40) but would be delighted to join in with fellow FT'ers and meet the "man from OZ" if it pans out that way. I'll stay tuned!
Notice, two things. First look at how Molson gushes about meeting Ozstamps. Do you really believe Ozstamps wouldnt respond? Second, you should be aware every possible time MolsonMiler offers to possibly meet people, OZ happens to be in the USA. Now watch what happens on this thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000714.html
MolsonMiler, said,
OZ ... sorry we missed in Seattle last week. I'm in LAX now and will be in SFO in an hour or so - I'll call you at Hotel and see if we can get together this time!
Notice according to MolsonMiler he did NOT meet Ozstamps in SEA. BUT
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000727.html
MolsonMiler, said,
BizJet - It seems clear from the official UA press release Ozstamps provided link to above that ALL flights will be on 747-400, the newer 747-OB types with the nice seats in all classes and sleeper F. This is an excerpt below. So, booking seat 11B upstairs (or whatever) on the entire rtw seems possible. Mark me down as "very possible" please. After meeting you in SFO last week for dinner, I think it may be quite a fun trip!
Now BIZJET met MolsonMiler in SFO the same dayhmm. I say we e-mail BizJet a picture of Ozstamps and ask him who he met. It should be very simple to find out if MolsonMiler is Ozstamps. And if he isvery sick, praising himself.
Last, just for funheres a thread with Jane (really Ozstamps) in her kitchen in Alabama. AND MolsenMiler, All on a thread from Ozstamps. Hes having a party virtually by himself
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000679.html
janejet, said,
Our taxes work in interesting ways. Same State Dept site has a helpful fact sheet on "CHEMICAL - BIOLOGICAL WARFARE" which might be useful to print out and keep in my kitchen. Not aimed at Iran I hasten to add - but just in case it happens one day in Alabama
So, lets clear Ozstamps name (or not) by asking Bizjet