cesco.g
Very simple: The people who post the most (and whom the policy would target) know that nothing is going to happen anyway so why should they waste their time?

>> Who wants a moderated system, when someone decides whether to post your writing or not?

Moderated usenet newsgroups may work that way (a real weakness,in my opinion), but other moderated electronic discussions do not, and a moderated board of this nature certainly would not. In the systems I've worked with, the moderators are active participants on their boards, and often well respected. They keep the tone of discussion civil and on topic.

Typical is the system used on The Well, described at http://www.thewell.com/conf/guidelines.html

That's exactly the kind of system I would like to see used here. Having participated on both moderated and unmoderated boards for years, I much prefer moderated ones, as flames and flame wars are far rarer and trolls are dealt with far more easily.

cesco.g and cactuspete make the most compelling case, IMHO.

New and infrequent posters have no clue whom to ignore, even if we could squelch. BTW, I agree that a squelch feature would be great. Unfortunately the software Randy uses for this board does not have such capability. It DOES have the IP log feature built in, however, for SPECIFICALLY the reason I am now calling for it to be used.

And Cesco is right, we have to carefully balance the freedom of speech (on which issue I am generally a libertarian) with the need to maintain credibility and trust.

Folks, it only takes one rotten apple to spoil the barrel. The accusations subsequent to Ozstamps' abhorrent multi-identity posting and the mistrust it has bred may or may not be founded, but it is real. I feel it myself when I read a new poster or a poster that I find "suspicious."

Bottom line: I agree that this is "just an internet bulliten board." Not a matter of national security. But I'd like to think that we are collectively more then that. We hire cops to protect us from the criminals not from the well-intentioned. We pay an army to keep the peace, not to make war (as I was recently reminded). IMHO, IP logging is a simple, unobtrusive way to keep most of the foxes out of the hen house. That way we can all get back to the business of making eggs without constantly looking over our shoulders http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Rip off the masks?? You mean display all your identity documents and let us scan your barcode before we talk to you? And this comes from the "Land of the free"?? Wow!!!

I am not quite sure what this is all about but from reading the posts here I presume that Ozstamps might have responded to someone's e-mail under another name or something like that. And if that's the case then is it really necessary to use terms like "ozzie-phalanxes" and "from South of the equator"? He is not the only person on this board from the butt end of the world! It doesn't feel too good to have a finger pointed at you because of your race, gender or ethnicity. When I started reading this thread then I felt pretty much similar to what an African American might feel when called a n****r (sorry, but I couldn't find a better comparison).

For those of you who want censorship, have you ever considered the risks? You disclose your IP and all your info can be easily traced. Has anyone heard of Identity theft? Do you know that once your personal details are available a thief can duplicate your identity and be "you" in less than 3 weeks? Taking loans and running up bills in your name? Sounds like fun? Everything you worked for all your life taken away by banks because some crook stole your identity?!?! Is it really worth it just because you suspect that someone is double posting on this board? Besides, a real pro can always circumvent any tracing, so no one will know who s/he really is.

Finally, it is quite easy to distinguish between Americans, Britons, Aussies and other nationalities due to their different languages ("accents"). I am pretty sure that most of you can pick my accent as being different from North American (and please don't accuse me of being Ozstamps!), so it would be pretty hard for me to pretend to be someone that I am not.

Just my 2 cents.

Koko:
.

Well, then it's time for a change of software. What has to happen for a change to take place? Lets' face it: I don't think double identities are going away, nor do I think they are the problem, expect when they are used to deceive.

IMHO, what is a problem is 100 posts/day of "what's up?", "I did this", "I did that". I don't mind the **occasional** funny diatribe, but I do mind having to read through Oz's posts. That's why I'd like a feature allowing me to ignore them, even if it'll play havoc with my understanding of a thread.

But, correct me if I am wrong, no one can do anything about it, aside from banning Oz.

Spider: If you can steal someone's identity and use their credit cards by identifying their IP address then you need to start business and I want to invest!!!! As I outlined, IP logging allows none of what you suggest. And further, IP addresses would not even be available to the public, only to Randy's staff. And whether you like it or not, your IP IS being logged on at least half of the websites you visit. SOP for many, many internet companies to measure and analyze traffic.

And to the extent I offended you with my somewhat obtuse refrences to Ozstamps, I apologize. I meant no disrespect to your continent, hemisphere or otherwise, nor did I mean to associate you or anyone else with his behavior.

James:
With all due respect, when FT loses it's credibility, we are no different from a newsgroup.

This forum won a Freddie - in no small part because you have a large collection of "experts" in the frequent flier/stay programs. But these experts aren't on the company dime. They can offer truly objective opinions.

For example, is Starwoods or Hhonors better? Who do you ask? Starwoods? Hilton? Guess what they're going to say.

Here you can hear from folks who have been in both - sometimes simultaneously - and who can offer useful and valuable advice to steer you in the right direction.

In addition, I trust the information I receive from some folks here more than I do from front line personnel.

And best of all, the folks here know how to "play the game" - good luck getting that kind of insight from a membership guide.

Flyertalk's credibility is important to me, as well as a lot of other folks. When we lose that, we might as well fold our tents and go home.

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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."

Jon, I appreciate, and strongly agree with, your comments about what is good in FlyerTalk. However, you didn't really answer my question. FT is only an internet bulletin board-cum-newsgroup, albeit a very informative and civilized one compared with most. The credibility it has comes from the individuals who post here in terms of their wisdom, knowledge and quality. It does not in any way come from the board itself. Moreover, the credibility of any individual is always going to be in the eye of the beholder. FT is not, as is often stated here, a Community. There is a community based here, but it is a subset of the board, not vice versa.

As for winning a Freddie, receiving an award from the company that owns and operates the board hardly adds credibility; in fact I would argue quite the reverse.

Koko - Randy posted in one thread very recently to say that a big software change (away from UBB) is imminent (maybe he even said under test). Hopefully we will get our squelch feature then. I take your point about 'one rotten apple' and I largely agree - but one apple can still be rotten when having only one identity. Despite that, I think you have pesuaded me that (in addition) turning on the IP logging would not be a bad thing.

[This message has been edited by james (edited 12-12-2000).]

James:
I agree that the collective wisdom comes not from the board, but from the content as posted by users.

If that content is credible and useful, this board is judged to be credible and useful.

If that content is judged to less than credible, than this board is diminished.

As for the community aspect, I concur with Mr. Webster's opinion:

(By the way, I'm not looking to get into a tit-for-tat or hairsplitting debate here! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif I, for one, feel this is a community. If you do not, then I think it fair to agree to disagree)

I would RATHER see a personal squelch feature - I wrote code for just that on my BBS running out of bedroom 20 years ago which ran on TWO 340K floppy drives. (Thank God I had very patient parents who could deal with modem calls 24 hours a day!)

I strongly believe that multiple handles, except when clearly used for fun (ie: Santa) that would be obvious to ANY casual observer, have no place here.

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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."

I think that aside from the occasional split-hair we are saying the same thing, we agree on the problem(s) and largely agree on the best solution(s)! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by james (edited 12-13-2000).]

Interesting idea! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif but I don't think I like this kind of business. There are better ways to make $$. Innocent people suffer too much through this.


Are you an internet software engineer? Have you consulted one lately? Anything is possible on the net. If you doubt what I said then check out the web for "stalkers" and see how these pests get their victims. Another helpful place would be "cyberangels" where victims of stalkers' are taught how to trace these predators. It's not that hard...

I think many would be surprised at just what someone with connections could accomplish with the internet given access to a little bit of carnivorous software. You don't even need IP tracking for that stuff! Talk about probable civil rights violations! Ha!

But that's not what we're talking about here with IP Logging. Anyway, the membership wouldn't have access to any of that info.

I vote for turning it on. It's main benefit would be as a deterrent. Even if it discourages just one person a month from playing games, it's worth it, IMHO.

Just an example of a commonly used (by some here!) company like eBay, this is what you AGREE TO to even use that site to buy or sell. Pretty scary stuff. I've never sold anything on eBay on any on line Auction, but anyone who thinks they can do that under a bogus name and get away with it is kidding themselves if this is all true below.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-priv.html#2


We automatically track certain information about you based upon your behavior on our site. We use this information to do internal research on our users' demographics, interests, and behavior to better understand and serve our users. This information is compiled and analyzed on an aggregated basis. This information may include the URL that you just came from (whether this URL is on our site or not), which URL you next go to (whether this URL is on our site or not), what browser you are using, and your IP address.

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~ Glen ~

[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 12-13-2000).]

THANK YOU, RANDY!

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm unhappy with the move to log and track IP addresses, but I understand and respect the decision by WebFlyer to do so.