Trains in China?
 

Hello fellow FTer's,

I booked a last minute train ticket from Shanghai to Xi'ian on the 2nd which coincidentally is on the HUGE Chinese week-long holiday and was wondering if anyone has information what the trains will be like? I have, unfortunately, a HARD SEAT and heard horror stories about these but anyone else got another opinion? Many thanks

I've once had a hard seat in a fully booked train from Shanghai to Nanjing (and that was a slow one, so it took around 5hrs)... now, Shanghai to Xi'an is, of course, way longer, and might get you really on the edge of your nerves.

It will be crowded, not only from people, but also from luggage. It is definitely doable, as the Chinese train system, even in hard seats, is still way above Indians levels, but it won't be like European/NA rush hour. I suggest you're giving yourself a good dose of Tsingtao (or any other alcohol or you prefered, legal drug) to get yourself more relaxed. Also, such a distance should be overnight, no? Do you have hard sleeper, or really only hard seat? Hard sleeper is not that bad, yes it's full, but you'll eventually be able to sleep.... hard seats will make things harder...

I would consider looking around if you've to travel on those very dates... maybe there are still Business class seats available on Chinese Eastern? Should not cost a leg and an arm...

One other note, recently the Chinese gouvernment does try to limit travelling on National Holidays by splitting them into more but smaller periods. Might help a bit in your case, but probably won't help much.

Why did you put yourself in that situation? If I were you, I'd swallow that loss and buy a plane ticket (Y690+50 will get the job done on the 3rd, or slightly more if you want to fly on the 2nd). If you do decide to sweat out the train, you should be able to upgrade on board, as long as you don't waste any time getting to the conductor's counter.

You seriously don't want to know. The beds are filled with bedbugs and the sheets and blankets stink of piss.

You're welcome and enjoy your ride.

Well, that's a rather negative view. SH-based train sets aren't all that bad IMO, and I've braved much harsher trains without any ill effects.

That having been said, I stand by my earlier remarks... that the hard seat purchase was a questionable decision.

Well I guess one can always choose to be cold and unrested or rested but covered with bites and smelly.

And of course there won't be any lasting effects but not exactly a nice way to travel. So always try to upgrade to the best class seats while travelling on a Chinese train.

But as with everything else, YMMV.

I must say, you choose a wrong time to travel.
It definitely very crowded in national day holiday. But also, the extent of crowding depends on which trains and what kind of tickets you booked.

T and Z trains are much better,clean and on time. Usually over-selling ticket is impossibe at soft-sleeper and hard-sleeper canbins, so not very crowded.

Hard seat ? give it up! especially the slow trains' hard seat!
T116 and Z92 are the fatest trains from Shanghai to Xian.

--If you're not used to dealing with seething masses of humanity, then I'd recommend springing for the plane ticket.
--If you want to practice your Chinese and have stories to regale your grandkids, keep the hard seat. Don't expect to get any sleep and you'll need to watch your stuff.

It's likely that on this train, not everybody who's bagged a sleeper will be going all the way to Xi'an. When they get off, a sleeper berth will be freed up and it is theoretically possible to get this sleeper, with cost prorated for the balance of the journey. To do this, you need to find the on-board conductor and get in his/her good graces, and be willing to take hard or soft sleeper whatever comes up. This will be easier if you speak some Mandarin. There will be others trying the same gambit, so it is really a crapshoot.

Despite kitsura's comments, most Chinese trains are actually reasonably decent.

As others have said upthread, try to upgrade your ticket at the station or onboard if possible or if money isn't an issue, take the hit and buy the flight.

2 hrs in coach vs an overnight hard seat train on a holiday week is a no brainer, unless money is tight.

Safe Travels

Hahaha I thank you all for your comments!

Unfortunately money is tight but I will take your advice on trying to upgrade to a sleeper. I am on a T116 which is a fast train so that helps I hope! It will be a eye-opening experience nevertheless esp on this crazy Chinese holiday. Thanks again

T116 is overall not bad. But it stops in more cities than Z along the way. I am pretty sure that the YZ ( hard seat) cars will get packed over night during the time you travel. If you get a window seat, good for you! You may get a bit of sleep over night. If you you get a aisel or middle seat, brace yourself.

Also drinking beer is not a good idea cause you may have to fight your way to the toilet more often. And you may find people settling down there all the time too.:mad:.

If you are in the middle of the train just go to the office and try to get an upgrade. Go there as early as possible once you get on the train and don't leave until you've given the final word. Some people pay 50 Yuan to get a seat in the dinning car. But since you've gotten a seat already it may not apply to you.^

Good luck!

Personally, I like to ask (ahead of time) which car/doorway is closest to the "office" and then make a beeline for that specific spot at the earliest opportunity. Getting the upgrade should be a serious priority for the OP!

I don't even like to be in the same area as a train station at this time. They are madhouses and then the train ride may be "interesting". Moondog has given some good advice.

Good Luck!

If you are looking for the train "experience", then you will definitely have it in the head-seat class. If you are not in it for the experience, then take other posters' recommendations and fly. Save lots of time to fly (but pay more though).

The station in Xian is more of a mad house (MHO) than that of Shanghai Station. Finding the end of line for the taxi is overwhelming (even for repeat trips). I wouldn't want to take the bus there. My experience was based on non-holiday period travel.

Now that you've rekindled this thread, I'm extremely curious to hear the OP's tale.

In response to your post, I really like train travel in China. My negative comments earlier in this thread pertained only to the instant case (hard seat between SH and Xi'an). I will continue to urge FTers to try out China's rails, when doing so makes sense (e.g. SH-BJ). Thus far, I've yet to receive a single complaint from someone I've pushed in that direction.

Alright - here is the tale of my SHANGHAI - XIAN train journey on a peak-holiday time in China:

I arrive at the station in Shanghai an hour before the train departure. Everything was smooth and orderly so far - no queues and everything seemed relatively calm - I was expecting the worst - a real MADHOUSE! As soon as the train was called for boarding, all hell broke loose! Suddenly it seemed the whole station was bottle-necking toward the gate.

On the platform I headed towards the front of the train as I had a Hard Seat ticket. Car #2 was now my home for the next 15 hours to Xian. As I entered the Car with about 200 or so other people, I realized this is going to be one ride I'll never forget. My seat was at the very front of the car so it took me about 20mins to weave (and sometimes climb) over people to get to my seat! When I got there, there were already two people sitting on my seat which I had to kindly ask to move. I had a seat on the isle which is the worst seat you could imagine for this trip. As the train started to move, people were still crammed in the isle trying to find their seat (or any seat for that matter). I ended up sitting with 3 people on a two person seat as well as someone sitting on the table! I saw some people in the isle STAND for the whole duration of the trip to Xian! People were sleeping and sitting in the isle and it made it IMPOSSIBLE to move anywhere. Forget about sleeping; there was no legroom and the way the seats are positioned, its a uncomfortable way to sleep! But through all this madness, the Chinese know how to make the best of it. I ended up playing cards and making a few friends on this journey with people on the train. The spirit was great and even though it felt like I was in a tuna-can sometimes, it was an experience someone (and I think everyone) should do.

The return trip back to Shanghai, I opted for the soft sleeper!! Happy travels everyone

^

Great report. Thanks for this.

Thanks for posting. I'd been looking forward to your report and I'm glad that you are still alive and sane.

Questions:

1) Would you do it again?
2) What would you advise someone else who was in the same situation as you were (i.e. hard seat ticket in hand for really long trip)?

Ahh good questions!

It was an absolute mess on the railways during holiday times and one could easily see why China is the most populated country in the world just by the fact that these trains are packed to the gills esp. in the Hard Seat class. If you think about it, this class is the cheapest of the train and many students/low-income workers can only travel via Hard Seat. So it's a given that these cars will fill up (sometimes overfilled) during peak-times. Personally, I would travel in the Hard Seat class again but never on a holiday period in China! On off-peak times, this class would be alright to travel in (I'm assuming) if you are tight on budget.

For anyone else who may travel on a Hard Seat class on a long distance trip - be prepared! Have a good night's rest before you travel, buy some snacks and drinks BEFORE you go on the train and have an iPod or a good book to keep you entertained for the many seemingly loooong hours ahead of you. The 'Hard Seat' isn't like what it sounds - it does have padding and is similar to seats on an economy class plane (minus the reclining action!). If you are a sociable person and like to experience different cultures - the Hard Seat is a great place to experience such. Be open minded and have fun!!

One further advice on this. Do buy fresh food/snacks. The packaged stuff (chicken legs etc.) sold at Chinese stations contains enough chemicals to kill you three times over.

I am Chinese and I have dozens of the experence of hard seat for over-night train. I should say too many crowd in the hard seat because it is near to the National Holiday.

Suggestion: to buy the hard sleep/soft sleep or D-train to take long train.

I think you can order the train ticket on hotel in advance.

Another suggestion: If it is near Chinese Holiday, strong suggest to stay at home.

I'm glad you enjoyed your trip. I can hardly stand being 4hrs in an economy class cabin, not to mention 15hrs on a cramped train seat.

I think you might be over estimating the "holiday effect". My most memorable hard seat experience occurred during "normal times" and it also sucked (just like you describe).

Agreed. Any time of year, hard seat is prone to being pretty packed and miserable. My hard seat travel days are mostly over now, though if no other options, I'd do it if the travel was 3 hours or less.

But I like the OP's attitude as well as fortitude about the whole episode. :D

Right now on a KTX train in Korea so feel inspired to chime in ;)

Hard sleeper is quite bearable if not schlepping too much luggage, but hard seat on Shanghai - Xi'an? I'll pass thank you.

Did Xuzhou - Xi'an on the hard sleeper last year due to a last minute travel need and soft sleeper sold out. Not that bad talking with a Chinese business friend, reading and drinking copious amounts of tea.

The 1000 kilometer Wuhan - Guangzhou highspeed link just opened on Saturday.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...nt_9232823.htm

This is beginning to look amazing, travel time by train cut from ten to three hours.

Wuhan is already connected to Shanghai by another highspeed link via Hefei and Nanjing so in principle one can travel at speeds of 200 - 350km/h all the way from Shanghai to Guangzhou.

Great if you can afford it.

First-Class ticket 780 RMB
Second Class 490 RMB

Regular train: 56-289RMB

Even still, it's a blessing for those that happen to live in Wuhan, or anywhere else along the route, for that matter. I've urged a few people here with flexible January schedules to consider trying it, but it doesn't fit neatly into many itineraries. If it were possible to go all the way to HK on the same train, maybe a different story.

[QUOTE=moondog;13064148]. I've urged a few people here with flexible January schedules to consider trying it, but it doesn't fit neatly into many itineraries. QUOTE]

Maybe will try it in April when at Canton fair. Not that I need to go to Wuhan, but should be fun ride.:)

Changsha is worth a visit for night.

My two cents on train travel in China--

I took two overnight trains in a three day period a few weeks ago. Both were K trains and I took one hard and one soft sleeper.

The soft sleeper was more luxurious but as jiejie had warned, I felt very uncomfortable being in a tiny, closed room with three men. Especially considering that all three of them watched me for hours until the lights were off. I was on the upper bunk and the guy across stared at me directly and then the guys on the lower bunk watched me through the mirror on the door! None of them had brought books or any form of entertainment, so I guess I was it. I would not recommend this for women traveling alone. It didn't feel unsafe, exactly, it just felt creepy.

The hard sleeper was much better because it wasn't an enclosed space, there were more people and there were more women.

I can't say that I got much sleep on either, to be honest. The train stopped every 30 min and this woke me up every time. If I were to do it again I'd take a sleeping pill.

I ended up opting to fly rather than take a hard seat trip. A girl I was traveling with said it was one of the worst experiences of her life. She said that any time she did try and fall asleep she'd wake up to the sound of camera phones taking pictures of her! (She is blond)

Overall I am very glad I took the train in China, and would recommend a hard sleeper. That said, now that I've done it I think I'd usually rather fly if the price isn't too much more (and it usually isn't).

Thanks for the tip. Will finally get some authentic Hunan fish head.

Didn't the SAR government already approve a huge underground highspeed line and terminus in Kowloon? The cost is supposed to be prohibitive but it seems to have been "an offer you cannot refuse".

Guangzhou - Wuhan should get the CRH3 that is based on the German Siemens Velaro/ICE3.

Haven't tried it in China but 1st class on the European ICE3 is rather comfortable and one can hope the Chinese version still features a real dining car with kitchen while that has been eliminated in Europe.

How is 78 Euro for a first class ride (or 49 Euro for a 2nd class) for a high-speed train running 1000km overpriced for you? And please, don't come with the argument that many Chinese can't afford it. 490 RMB isn't that much of a sum for a growing middle class in China. And I wonder where you can find 56 RMB tickets for that ride... will that be in the luggage car?

The premium asked for this trully high-speed service seems very reasonable for me, I was expecting it to be higher. Don't forget, they built new tracks all the way along, new stations, new material (trains), they don't want to fight the current train system for those who can't afford the highspeed train, but rather offer an alternative to taking the aircraft for those with money. 1000km in 3 hours from city center to city center beats aircraft hands down. They price it around the same as airfares as they can do this. Why shouldn't they not? China isn't a Communist country anymore (well, it is by definition, but we all know what I mean) they're about making cash with this line. Not building a stupid prestige object.

I'm looking forward for Beijing-Shanghai high-speed railway service. Imagine.. travelling from the North of China to the South, in less than a day.. and that will be finished in a few years!

Once petrol gets more expensive again (and that will happen!) the investions China is doing into its train network will pay off even more.

I would speculate 95% of the population could not afford to travel on the new train. Middle class in China?

Shanghai Maglev - Stupid Prestige Object
Tianjin High Speed Rail - Olympic Prestige Object

This new line is just another white elephant that will never see any financial profit and the sole purpose is prestige propaganda.

I don't think your gonna find "haute cuisine" on this or any other train
in China.

http://www.lifeofguangzhou.com/node_...00472488.shtml

Several Chinese friends, not just middle class but fairly wealthy, prefer to use trains for their business travel even today. For example the Shanghai - Beijing night trains on the existing "slow" tracks.

I would imagine the new service will be filled to the brim with sales reps and other business travellers. China is like Russia, a country where people love their trains and train travel.

The Tianjin track and similar new projects in the Shanghai region are changing urban landscapes by making everyday commuting faster and simpler than before. Especially in the Yangtze delta I'd expect a huge number of Shanghai residents will be looking to relocate to either Suzhou or Wuxi once the new connections are there.

As long as they have a steam oven instead of microwaving the dishes I'm a happy camper. :) But Grrrr, the demise of train restaurants everywhere is not an aspect to be considered "development".

Might as well like it. Up until the last ten years it was the only affordable
means of transportation.

That's also true. But even then you notice how important a part train travel is in Chinese life and psyche. ;)

Btw, just found an english language news piece from CCTV 9 about the maiden Wuhan - Guangzhou journey. The new Wuhan main station looks quite impressive, doesn't it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-blGN-CxPac