don't know whether to be happy or worried about this.

The new boss of MU came from CZ, and MU has a strong feeling against *A because of CA.

One World should do better to get MU on board, but CX has a close link with CA. This probably is the reason why MU didn't go for One World.

With two out of three major airlines in China, Skyteam will dominate the market between China and the rest of world.

Is China Eastern partnered with Delta Air? If yes, then they will also be paired with NW.

Besides the ownership of CX vs. the Mainland China airlines you ignore the fact that FM and CA are *A while CZ and MU will be Skyteam. CX plus KA are One World.

Having said that I don't see how Skyteam could possibly 'dominate' the x-country market to mainland China.

Except for the US-China routes the connections to China are fairly abundant and to me it seems that all three airline alliances are well represented (to a lesser extend the HK-based CX/KA One World party)?

Within APAC KA/CX is clearly the best of the bunch - especially in terms of equipment/service/schedule (but with stop in HK).


Personally - PVG based - I'm most likely to fly CA or (If I cannot avoid it) MU domestically and overseas carriers for x-border flights.

The mainland China airlines are still lagging behind - but esp. CA is catching up thanks to the massive capital infusion some years back (not to speak about the capital injections to all carriers re fuel hedging in recent months).

Just my 2cts on the topic

Ham

(Rumor) - MU to sign agreement to join Skyteam in February.
Came up in my feeds today. Author claims (via reliable source - though not named), that MU will sign agreement to join Skyteam next month.

FM has been bought by MU, it will have to leave *A very soon (12-18 mth). CX/KA do not have significant impact on domestic Chinese traffic.

Personally, after visiting China for 10 years I found go through HKG today is unnecessary and unreasonablely expensive. For any business person to visit mainland China, PEK and PVG are the main hub.

Skyteam now has the best deal in China with both CZ and MU (incl. FM) onboard. Both CZ and MU are building PEK as their second hub, this will be a significant development for *A and Oneworld.

I am afraid Oneworld is going to lose out in Asia Pacific with the JAL crisis and development in mainland China. I believe Oneworld has done a lot in early stage trying to convince MU, but the CX/CA link made all these impossble.

How are they going to arrange the China - Japan/Korea codeshares? ANA is currently in agreement with Shanghai Airlines and Asiana with China Eastern.

CA has a 12% hold on MU and it can oppose or block any deals it does not like, as it did less than two years ago with SQ. CX also has shares in MU and most likely they will not let it go unless they are some concessions to be made (for instance establishing a KA hub in PVG with connections to second tier cities)

if you are fine coping with generally lackluster and indifferent service, unnecessary and unexplained delays (courtesy of your friends at PLAAF especially at PVG),dependence on a visa prior arrival and mediocre city and hinterland connections, good for you. In spite of billions of yuans thrown liberally towards oversized structures representing more the inflated ego of the government than a real improvement in travel conditions, HKG remains the best airport in China by a long way, and its services and connections win hands down against the ones offered by any mainland port, and this has been true since I came first in China 15 years ago.

No question that the HKG is the superior airport with superior service--from a passengers point of view (probably airlines also). However, for some itineraries, transiting through HKG just to experience that particular airport makes no sense. If one is travelling long-haul international from most locations to central or northern mainland China--and has no business scheduled for Hong Kong or southern PRC--than it makes little sense to fly through HKG. Particularly if paying for one's own ticket, as the HKG-mainland flight connections are not cheap. There's a reason most of us in northern China needing to get to HKG on our own dime, fly instead to Shenzhen and cross the border overland.

Not sure why you brought up the visa issue, I can't see any relevance.

As for MU joining Skyteam, well...not sure this is really going to be a Great Leap Forward for most flyers. Unless you've got kaboodles of DL FF miles and need to burn them off to/in Asia, now there's an opportunity besides KL and CZ. :-P I find earning miles on any of the Chinese airlines is relatively useless unless you are flying premium fares. Most other alliance program partners only allow earning on the highest of fares. (F, J, full or nearly full Y) And the Chinese own airline programs aren't worth much. IMO

there is no need to have business there to use HKG as a transit point, and you can afford to get there and have an entry visa should you need to go for an emergency. I found the cost of transit in PVG (no business yet in PEK areas) marginally different from the one in HKG and not enough in my opinion to warrant a switch there, especially considering the caos experienced in all the occasions, from check in to customs and a general indifference in attitude. Many I know have reached the same conclusions.

If Dragonair would ever operate routes out of PVG other than HKG that would be great news. But then Air China should probably be given a majority share in order to please Beijing?

CA at the moment is very much involved the development of China domestic/international market. If I recall correctly its ex-boss is now head of CAAC. That's why I found amusing the speculations about MU or CZ...CAAC will decide for them, not comrade Li or some other pale figure in Guangzhou. I agree with you that CX also depends on CA whims, unless Swire decides to cut the crap and actively pursues a merger with some other Asian/Australian airline

Most of my business is in East China and PEK surrounding area. To me, travelling from London, arriving HKG in late afternoon - have to stay over night because no connection to my destinations. One night hotel would cost me 200 pounds, then the HKG to mianland China part is always very expensive normally 150 pounds. And I lose one day for business as well.

I am amazed how you found the cost of transit in PVG is marginally different from HKG. At least, it won't cost me a day for transit, that worth a lot of money to me.

Back to your early post, yes CAAC is trying to re-organise Chinese airlines, that's why rumars about CA merge with CZ or MU keeping coming out. But don't you see the MU/FM link made it lound and clear to CAAC? I have to say, CAAC is only a government agency, has no power in Chinese politics.

MU did not get investment from SQ, not only because CA holds 12% share. It's the fund managers been promised by CA that CA will make a better offer. Did that actually happen? It's a pure business case, CA/CX will not have much say on MU/FM's development in the future, the fund managers are not trusting CA either.

KA to set a hub in PVG? I guess that's CX's dream. Will Chinese allow to foreigh owned airline (CX) to set a hub there? Go figure that out.

Like Jiejie, I couldn't understand your comments on visa either. We plan our visits at least 2 months in advance (if not any earlier), and we always arrange a Chinese visa in London. We've never done emergency visa, or never need one. If you plan your business carefully, why should you need one?

An airport to me is just an airport, I can't see HKG has any amazing stuff attracts me to use that as a transit hub. Chinese airports have worse lounges, so what?

Congestion problem exists in PVG, same as HKG. I have been sitting in a KA metal for few hours because air traffic control near PEK. If you need to go to mainland China, the delay is part of your journey regardless which route you got in. At least once you arrived in PEK/PVG, you are already in China not like in HKG.

The Chinese government is pumping money to keep Hong Kong running and to show the west. It's just to keep the face really, HKG is not the same 20 years ago.

And I remain convinced, transit through HKG is such a old fashion, and the rip off in Hong Kong is as bad as in mainland. You get fake stuff from Hong Kong, even from branded shops.