Was in Guangzhou and Shenzhen this past week.
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Not accepting credit cards -- lest one signs up for a QR code tracking device -- at most outlets is a bugaboo. On top of that VPNs weren't working at all.

Also, always forget about how dangerous it can be to simply exist on the sidewalk. With everyone on their phones, electric bikes furtively eroding my elbows, and other motorbike umbrellas threarning my skull, I think it's much easier to just hoof it in the street.
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Have a critique about trip.com train ticket purchases, too. The screenshot the app provides users to show train station employees in case of issues happens to lack the carriage/seat number. Instead, that rather useful bit of data is buried in one's trip.com train ticket reservation page.

Haven't had any issues using international credit cards with Alipay, and it allows for me to integrate into the existing systems for payments on metros, restaurants, and even a local pharmacy. I'm glad that Chinese payment apps allow this international usage as similar systems in other countries (such as PayPay in Japan) are locked behind local residency requirements, and I've run into merchants in Japan that only take cash or these QR apps. Sure, it could be better, but it could also be worse.

As for the bikes, I don't think any tourists are considering the potential of getting run over when considering whether or not to plan a trip. While I agree that the sidewalks are sometimes tenuous with bikes and scooters, you just need to make sure you're paying attention, and similar dangers exist in other countries (thinking of Amsterdam and their epidemic of insanely fast and rude cyclists).

AP and WX providing support for foreign credit cards at nearly all merchants is honestly one of the biggest boons we've witnessed wrt payments since the rise of AP and WXp themselves.

If you want to swipe your cards at physical terminals, you can still do so at many chained restaurants, retail stores in malls, and foreign flagged hotels. But, do you honestly expect the lady who sells soup for Y8/bowl to a customer base that has probably never even seen a credit card to invest in a POS machine and absorb interchange fees just so she can please one or two people per year?

IME, as long as you're using a good service, connectivity issues are pretty easy to troubleshoot and resolve. We have a thread on the topic in general here:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chin...vpn-china.html

I used to be a vocal critic of this, as you can see from this thread I started in 2020:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chin...lks-china.html

Since then, I have to say that enforcement of relevant laws has stepped up in a major way (e.g. next time you find yourself at a major intersection, take note of how complacent the pedestrians and bikes are compared to 5 years ago). In fact, I've received two citations while biking myself (I was only mildly annoyed by the one in which I thought I did nothing wrong because I respect the overall vision).

To be sure, there's still a lot of room for improvement on this front (e.g. more accountability for the delivery companies themselves, change the compensation structures so there is less incentive to mow people down), but I'm still pleased with how far we've progressed to date.
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Have you tried using 12306 instead?

[Off topic discussion redacted]

Getting back on topic - if China wants to show it's serious in welcoming visitors, it should:

1) restore Japan's visa-free entry status
2) add the United States and UK to the list

I think regardless of how much China opens up -- remember, the visa policy is more 'liberal' right now than it ever has been -- there will always be a crowd moving the goal posts in the name of 'caution'.

And the US being added to the visa free list seems like a long-shot in any foreseeable future given the relations between the two countries. But who knows -- I was surprised to see Australia being added to the list.

Regardless of how much they dress it up with belts and roads or try to avoid the appearance of copying less mighty countries, I believe that salvaging inbound tourism is the clear MO here. And, as I suggested a few posts up, I think the expanded visa free countries list is just the beginning (I.e that list will continue to grow and we can look forward to some more creative carrots).

I don't disagree, I just don't think the United States is next in line. Happy to be proven wrong though. But do you really feel like they are trying to dress this new openness move as something it isn't? I feel they are being very clear and straight-forward about being open and wanting to attract foreigners.

My post was more addressing comments that China is somehow 'closed' and one should 'exercise caution' even though the country is now defacto more open than it's ever been (and will no doubt open up even more by adding more countries to the visa free list). But I'm sure even when every nationality on the planet can travel visa free to China there will be a crowd arguing in bad faith and moving the goal posts in the name of 'caution'. Like, if you don't want to go, then just don't go.

As you mention, there will always be people who just will never want to go, but I assume that as more people know people who come to China and have a good time, they might decide for themselves to visit, as well. Removing barriers through visa-free 15-day entry without transit requirements to those who are "adventurous" could be the way to plant that seed among social groups, etc. I think a good amount of Americans who are interested in traveling would take them up on that.

I repeat, for non-mainland citizen/resident visitors, the internet is shite. IME, the series of tubes (i.e. the internet) are pretty much less open than ever.

On that note, Android-using inbound tourists should probably be aware that the Playstore won't work, lest the person have another country's data SIM/some VPN downloaded beforehand.

And I continue to scorn Baidu's maps app. Like every other Chinese app, it is chock full of rubbish, ads, and childish graphics. Not to mention, its directions from A to B could use a lot of help.

On a less dispiriting note, trip.com, being based in China, works fine.

Gaode Ditu (高德地图) works a lot better than Baidu maps in my experience, it is what I use when I'm in the mainland these days.

I consider this new visa scheme to be about business and not tourism. China probably wants to attract more investors from Europe.
And almost everyone I know personally that has travelled to China has done so for business. The only tourists I personally know went on "package trips" where everything was fully organized.

This is part of the reason I consider China more of an "advanced" destination for seasoned travellers, things like this just make it harder.

My easiest time travelling to China was in the "golden years" back in 2009/2010, you could use cash for everything and most things could be accessed on the net like Google. Getting a sim card was also easy back then.

A renaissance in this area is one of my beyond visa-related stimulus predictions.:)

Aye.
Out of three business associates who vowed in 2021 never to come back to China ever again, two have already been back, and the third just became too old to, or he would have also.

Mods - feel free to move this conversation to another thread if better suited.

Here’s my perspective on the Internet question: I have no memory or experience of China before Internet restrictions come into play. Far before I ever even considered traveling outside of the US, I knew that China had Internet restrictions.

I own a phone that is eSIM and Dual SIM compatible and do not have roaming (affordable roaming) on my US-based plan. eSIMs have been a blessing, and I obtained a 30-day unlimited data plan for $71.25 USD. Data services in China have been strong with LTE or 5G speeds, including in Metro stations and tunnels. The eSIM routes through Japan or Singapore (I’ve seen indications of both), and I have had zero issues with any services, except for Pokémon Go (which is because of GPS and the lack of support for Mainland China mapping).

In addition, as mobile data is not always the fastest (though, I haven’t had issues streaming YouTube), I obtained a VPN for $5 per month before arriving that allows for specific location choices. I haven’t had any issues with speed, etc. with routing through the service’s Japan servers. The one issue is that the Cloudflare blocking prevents me from accessing FlyerTalk - I was able to get around this by switching servers to Indonesia, which does not get hit by Cloudflare. I identified this as a working VPN through a quick Google search and perusal of Reddit threads from recent months. No, it doesn’t start with an A.

I’ve seen plenty of content from new travelers to China (likely Europeans and Australians) - along with many Singaporeans - that are actively posting on Western sites, so it’s not impossible to figure out.

Would it be easier if these restrictions didn’t exist? Sure, but it seems highly unlikely that the Great Firewall is going anywhere soon.

Now, I will say - would my parents be able to figure this out? No, definitely not - it would be a major exercise in frustration, but they’re not leaving the US ever anyway.

Many of the less popular subforums on Flyertalk, including this one, don't have dedicated moderators. Instead, we have ambassadors, and I believe I'm the only ambassador listed that still participates on a regular basis.

I'm honestly not exactly sure what ambassadors are supposed to do, apart from participate (the amb thing started over 15 years ago), but I occasionally message actual moderators with requests/suggestions based on my own thoughts and yours. I want to point out that anyone can do this, and if nobody does it, threads can get a little off topic.

Personally, I'm not especially bothered by tangents because we rarely have more than 5 or 6 active threads at a time, and sometimes we stumble upon interesting things and enjoy talking about them.

That having been said, I've been thinking about trying to organize (with moderator assistance) some the staple topics so we have master threads to refer to.

Since phone/internet/VPN discussions seem to be the most fragmented, I suggest we start there. IIRC, there are 2 (maybe 3) semi-active cell phone threads. We can merge those and add a very basic wikipost. The VPN thread should probably continue to stand on its own (IMO), but we can link to it from the new wikipost.

We can move onto the various visa related threads after that (or even in parallel), but this is the only one of the three that's been wounded.

In the meantime, I suppose we can continue on with the flow of the current conversation.

ETA: I just noticed that the phone thread revamp project has already commenced.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...204c3802b3.jpg