I recovered the post http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...hinese_travel/ . (oh, seems like that's gone too. Thank goodness I saved a PDF - have to use Google Drive as too big for FT attachment upload https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iOs...w?usp=drivesdk )

Interesting. Obviously it only works for children born with nationality conflict in the first place.

Just thinking of my niece and nephew (for the purpose of descending HKPR, or avoiding Chinese Visa if they choose to travel there). They aren't nationality conflicted so not affected by new arrangements for CTD (OTOH, nothing that will suggest CCP will suddenly "discover" they're Chinese citizens and deny them Australian consular protection).

In my case this is my first time finding out I might be nationality-conflicted, but both parents EDIT: were mainlanders at the time (now naturalized US citizens) so no HKPR. I'm wondering why it's only the US that has the additional "both parents have to have permanent residence" requirement (this is what might get me the CTD- my parents moved to the US the year I was born, so no permanent status for either at the time) to avoid nationality conflict, then, given your reply in the Reddit post. Seems like I have to decide whether to get a CTD instead of a visa next time or formally give up citizenship.

I'm not very knowledgeable with US immigration law (or more importantly - PRC's interpretation of US immigration law): for US, does PRC only consider Green Card to be settled abroad?

That seems to be the implication for the Chinese embassy's website listing document requirements for CTD:

"If you were born in the United States, and either or both parents were Chinese citizens without permanent residence in the US or any other country" is the category I might fall under. This is what used to only be until age 18 (at which point a choice had to be made) but now might be for life.

I looked up the judgement https://legalref.judiciary.hk/lrs/co...%2F11%29&TP=JU referred to by the https://www.alumni.cuhk.edu.hk/aaaus...grant_case.htm link from the Reddit.

The HK judgement doesn't really help cases like yours - HK court essentially looked at a purposive intention of the parents, and stated applicants' claims that only pernament right of abode (e.g. Green Card) should count were incorrect in law. So essentially, residential visas on the pathway to permanent residence also count for "settled abroad" according to HK courts.

Fortunately HK judgements on CNL do not necessarily inflect back on the Mainland (not that Mainland courts uses stare decisis anyway) so you can still claim your Embassy statement should stand.

I wonder if this might lead to people who think their cases might be on shaky ground choosing to apply for their documents from abroad, then. Because to pull up another Chinese embassy page, it seems to even more firmly state the PRC's interpretation, as they say as a child of Chinese citizens born in the US you need:

And another page shows they (at least in the US) accept HKID applications if submitted together with HKSAR passport applications.

On the whole, this is quite an interesting development. My current visa doesn't expire for quite a while, and now I need to figure out if I actually do fall under this (want to be absolutely sure, double-checking with parents) and if I want to pursue a CTD in that case (since then I would have no US consular protection anymore).

Don't worry. If they want to detain you, and they have an iota of fact they can use to claim you're a Chinese citizen, they'll use it.

Benefits of citizenship and Hukou have to be fought for, liabilities they'll stick on you like taxes.

The permanent residency of the parent affects the nationality of the child because of the Nationality Law of China. Article 5 states that:

Any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality. But a person whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad, and who has acquired foreign nationality at birth shall not have Chinese nationality.

The word settled refers to having obtained indefinite leave to remain, which in the case of the USA is taken to mean permanent residency. However, there is disagreement in the case of two Chinese parents where only one holds permanent residency. China interprets the law such that in this case, the child has no Chinese nationality, while Hong Kong interprets it differently and considers the child to be a Chinese national. The Hong Kong interpretation kicks in when the child interacts with the Hong Kong government, e.g., because one of the parents is a resident of Hong Kong, or if the child becomes a resident of Hong Kong later in life.

Hong Kong interprets this differently in the Lamb case https://legalref.judiciary.hk/lrs/co...%2F11%29&TP=JU - permanency not required so long as parents are on a path to such a permanency.

Yes correct.

That's interesting. A literal interpretation requires both parents to be settled abroad for Article 5 to kick in https://www.immd.gov.hk/eng/resident...inese/law.html . I suppose, this protects children born of a foreign national and Chinese national abroad, there was a breakdown in the relationship after birth and the Chinese parent wants to take the child back to China.

According to the PRC interpretation of Article 5, the child is not a Chinese citizen in this case?

My considerations aren't just from the China side; I can imagine certain types of employment in the US government where my formally having claimed dual citizenship by getting a CTD would cause issues were I to apply.

It's like Mainland citizens acquiring foreign nationaity and not cancelling their Hukous and Chinese passports - can the other government find out?

If the employment I was seeking was something involving a security clearance, absolutely. Guess I won't try to ascend too far up that ladder if I seek government employment.

But in Lamb's case, both parents already had permanent residency at the time of birth:

"In 2005, the parents immigrated to Canada under the skilled worker category and were issued permanent resident cards by the Canadian authority. "

...

"As mentioned above, the applicant was born during the time when the parents were residing in Canada as permanent residents."

https://www.nia.gov.cn/Enquiry/publi...qKim5acw%3D%3D

留言内容您好，我的宝宝在澳洲出生，当时我持有澳洲永久居民签证但未入籍，孩子母亲是留学签证。孩子出生后依照澳洲 法律自动取得澳洲公民，但我们都想让孩子加入中国籍经过了解得等到孩子18岁他自己提出退籍申请才行。我查 阅了相关法律法规对于这种国籍冲突的孩子是可以办理中国旅行证件的，但我去悉尼的中国大使馆却不给与办理。 请问我现在到底能否给孩子办理中国旅行证件？ 谢谢！

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　　您在我们网站上提交的问题收悉，现针对您所提供的信息简要回复如下：
　　根据您提供的情况，按照《国籍法》第五条之规定，您孩子出生时，您已取得澳大利亚永久居留权，孩子出生 即具有澳大利亚国籍，不具有中国国籍。鉴此，您的孩子无法办理中华人民共和国旅行证。根据《国籍法》第七条 规定：外国人或无国籍人，愿意遵守中国宪法和法律，并具有下列条件之一的，可以经申请批准加入中国国籍：一 、中国人的近亲属；二、定居在中国的；三、有其它正当理由。如您孩子符合上述规定情形，可向其所在国的我驻 外使领馆或父母亲内地户籍所在公安机关出入境管理部门提出加入中国国籍申请。
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If you want to eliminate this risk, you'd have to formally renounce your Chinese nationality.

Even if you don't apply for a CTD, you're still a Chinese national by law. So if whatever you're trying to do does not allow dual citizens (e.g., holding political office), then you're already in trouble.