The tests at PVG seem designed to punish you for coming back to China during the pandemic. Shoving it far up the nose into the back of your head, leaving it there for and eternity and then twisting it before pulling the swab stick out, only to do it all again on the other nostril.

None of the other Covid tests I’ve had performed on me in China have been anywhere near as painful or invasive which is why I think it is intentional.

Well it was my first time, or second rather with the first being the one in Sydney 2 days prior to departure. Perhaps the tests in other places simply aren't of the same rigour?

Well, the "rigour' isn't share anywhere else in China. When we were quarantine and tested by local nurses, it's only half-way in the nasals. When I had to do more testing for my work travels to Beijing at a few different testing sites in Shanghai, it was barely up the nasals. I am beginning to share the sentiment of the previous poster that said it was a punishment for people coming into China. If it is such a "rigour" practice, it certainly isn't share anywhere else in China.

Having spoken to a friend who does COVID testing on international arrivals in a 2nd tier city, they were under instructions to make the first swab test to be painful to ensure more arrivals were discouraged.
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I don't believe it but it sounded believeable, having read the anal probe news.

As odious as it is, I believe in reciprocity, and given how the US is still banning travelers from China, I accept whatever policy has in place against foreign (or US) travelers. When the US entry ban is removed then the US government can protest to China on behalf of its citizens.

I believe the US bans (at least most of them) are long past their expiration dates.

The US is not separating families.

Anyone from China with a valid visa can enter U.S. as long as it is not directly from China (or UK etc some specific countries), I know people from China went to a third country for 14 days then enters U.S. you can not do the same from U.S. to China.

Both fair and valid points.

Reciprocity is a good example in the EU here: https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-...us-pandemic_en

Basically, if China lets EU citizens in, then the EU will let Chinese citizens in. This policy has been in place since 30 June 2020.
In the America case, even if they lifted the "ban" tomorrow, China wouldn't let US citizens in. China is also not letting EU citizens in, for that matter...

False. Chinese citizens with visa can still enter into USA via a third-country. The requirement is they had to spend 14-days under quarantine before entering US. I know a couple that went to US via Cambodia to the US to attend to their daughter's wedding. That is troublesome but much better than a flat border ban by China to foreign nationals.

Finally some positive news (original article behind paywall): https://archive.is/yDAxT

Not separating families of PRs. However, the spouse of an H1B visa holder would have no rights to enter the USA.

A significant development here: Notice on Visa Facilitation for Applicants Inoculated with Chinese COVID-19 Vaccines ? Embassy of the People's Republic of China in the United States of America

Notably, the Chinese vaccines have not been approved in the US (the link above is from the US Embassy, but similar notices are on other Chinese embassies).
A potential strategy for a US-based person could be:

1. Get a vaccine in the US
2. Get a Chinese vaccine in a country that it is authorized in, potentially using the US vaccine to avoid quarantine
3. Apply for a visa

The third category in the link above about APEC seems to suggest a PU letter is no longer needed...

If this would work out, do you think it would be safe to combine the Chinese vaccine with a vaccine in the us?

I am not a medical professional.

Cursory google searching and my hunch is that a second vaccine won’t do any harm or good.

Yes. I see Hong Kong and Thailand as potential workarounds for this.

Southbound: Chinese travellers - e.g. students seeking to return to UK/US/AU campuses - enter HK/TH on the strength on their Coronavac/Sinopharm vaccines, then take Biontech/AZ vaccines.
Northbound: Rest of world travellers enter HK/TH on the strength of their Biontech/AZ vaccines and take Coronavac/Sinopharm for China travel.

After I discussed the idea with the missus, she booked herself for Biontech immediately. Last time China is short of vaccines, HK's vaccine stock always get pressured.

Seek Medical advise before taking two full dose of two different vaccines
 

Advise to seek advise on this.

1. Contraindications between vaccines are rare. Eg annual flu vaccine - how often would the doc ask whether you took last year’s?

2. We don’t have to guess. There should be a bunch of 2021 international student intakes from Mainland all to willing to take any needle you care to stick into them.

This doesn't make much sense unless the objective is to allow those in China to go abroad and return.

Or is this about face, pretending the Chinese vaccine is the best?

The last sentence of the link says that you still need to get tested before getting on the plane and still have to quarantine after arriving.

What's the point of this whole exercise? At that point, you might as well not get [their] vaccine at all.

To illustrate this point, let's say there are two people:

Person A is a US citizen who already got a non-Chinese vaccine
Person B is a Chinese citizen working in the US who also got a non-Chinese vaccine
Note: No Chinese vaccines are currently approved in the US (and in all probability, won't be)

The above announcement seemingly makes it easier for Person A to get a visa, but they still have to go through quarantine as if they had no vaccine.
The above announcement is not relevant to Person B, who still has to quarantine as if they had no vaccine.

Person A and Person B may both be willing to get a second vaccine to avoid quarantine, but otherwise, seems like there is no point.

Im in quarantine in Guangzhou currently. It was quite a process to get the green QR code to fly here with my residence permit.

Anyway, I’m going to be on assignment in Shenzhen for a while as an American, and I’d love to keep tabs on when China may begin to allow abbreviated quarantine requirements for those of us vaccinated. I’ll be traveling back to the US in august and it would be great to not have to go through this quarantine + all the brain biopsies when I come back.

I have practically zero concern about Covid in terms of my own health, but I’ll gladly hop on a vaccine line if it gets me some sort of travel benefit. Jab me right up like a good boy.

I understand Shanghai has already begun offering the vaccine, but they haven’t tied that to any changes in quarantine.

I'm in Shanghai. Some foreigners are jumping on the chance (though the latest I heard, appointments are already running into July).

Correct. This is the key for me. My calculus is that vaccine lines will get shorter as more doses are manufactured, and I'll get the shot when there are quarantine benefits.

Thane received his Sinovac shot ~6 months ago, so it is possible.

I had a doctor's appointment yesterday, and was offered Sinovac.

I declined because my current position is to wait until I go back to US. That having been said, if Sinovac makes the trip easier, I will get it.

Good to know. I’d also really be eager to find out if China would take the approach of vaccinating the high risk crowd and then letting things open up. It’s hard for me to understand what the end goal is for world leaders dealing with a virus that isn’t going to disappear with a vaccination that isn’t permanent. As it stands now, it’s chaos with no real end in sight if the goal is ensure zero cases.

We will get vaxed annually, if needed. I have no problem with this..

Right but as of now a vax doesn’t completely prevent spread and is not expected to last more than about 12mo. I don’t see how a vaccine passport could even be effective for international use, only domestic within China. I believe Sinovac forecasted manufacturing 150 million doses per year which can’t even keep up with a small portion of China.

Whats the end goal? No cases?

BioNTech doesn’t completely prevent spread - as in 100%, sterilising immunity.
But provides 90% https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...re-are-caveats - and does so for at least six months.
That’s quite enough.

BioNTech isn’t approved in China as of 21 March 2021, only Hong Kong. The only vaccines approved in China are purely domestic ones https://fortune.com/2021/03/20/biont...pproval-fosun/

Other Chinese vaccines e.g. SinoVac won’t release peer reviewed data which makes many people suspect they are less effective

I’m not actually so concerned about the whole % effectiveness piece (disclaimer: I already got 2x Moderna).

What’s becoming increasingly clear is that
1) there is no end game/strategy for countries with “no covid” with regard to vaccinated travelers. This includes China, but also for example Australia and New Zealand
2) Vaccines are now a political issue in China

IME, the Chinese are fine with non-Chinese vaccines.

Chinese foreign affairs department disagrees (at least for now). only Chinese vaccines are recognized when it comes to entrance.

I do think the Chinese government's goal is zero cases. Which they have been managing, more or less, since late Spring 2020, and are willing to do whatever to make that happen.

I fear that China may not open up for a long time because of this--not until cases in other countries drop to close to zero. In addition, the CCP may think that making international travel more difficult improves domestic political stability, and they're willing take the hit to the economy.

I was only addressing the stopping spread ability of Biontech on an objective basis. And as I admit, even Biontech isn't foolproof. Also yes no NHC approval.

As things stand (and given what we know how things work with face) you're more than less likely going to need Sinovac to get back in.

I'm starting to look at info for dual vaccinations data - it may be eventually need for China-rest of world travel - but looking for some outbound traveller from Mainland to try first and then looking for the Govt documentation (currently our forms don't document dual vaccination).

The Chinese tourism sector was massively tilted towards the outbound side so if anything closing the borders is giving a major economic boost to China as far as tourism is concerned. Of course the same is not true for Australia or NZ and their tourism sectors are struggling for survival.

I’m afraid you’re right which is unfortunate because it likely means the 14 day quarantine brain swab process isn’t going away for years. And that’s regardless of vaccination status. China is probably the only large or economically relevant country with the ability to actually do that too.

Considering I will want/need to internationally travel a few times per year to visit family or HQ, this makes me doubtful to want to extend my expat gig. That’s 4-6 weeks per year in quarantine, yikes.

So far Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have been about 95% effective against any disease and 100% effective against serious disease. It's not going to get any better than that. And if China is going to wait for zero cases to start allowing people back in, they will never open back up. Eventually if they do want to re-open they are going to have to accept people vaccinated with non-Chinese vaccines.

As for Chinese vaccines, aren't there multiple domestic China vaccines in addition to Sinovac? From what I have read it is going to be quite a while before China fully vaccinates the population unless they ramp up production of all of their vaccines. I generally travel to China twice per year, around the time of the Canton Fair. The April fair is not happening, I am starting to doubt that the October fair will happen.

Either a 0 rate globally or a 50-70% vaccination takeup rate locally.

If China opens up again before vaccination takeup is high, it's like the Incas allowing the Conquistadores to land with their smallpox. Even if unarmed.