China Exit Ban
 

As an American tourist (Caucasian), should I be concerned about the State Department's recent travel advisory regarding China's "exit ban"?

Chinese authorities have asserted broad authority to prohibit U.S. citizens from leaving China by using ‘exit bans,’ sometimes keeping U.S. citizens in China for years. China uses exit bans coercively:

• to compel U.S. citizens to participate in Chinese government investigations,
• to lure individuals back to China from abroad, and
• to aid Chinese authorities in resolving civil disputes in favor of Chinese parties.

In most cases, U.S. citizens only become aware of the exit ban when they attempt to depart China, and there is no method to find out how long the ban may continue. U.S. citizens under exit bans have been harassed and threatened.U.S. citizens may be detained without access to U.S. consular services or information about their alleged crime. U.S. citizens may be subjected to prolonged interrogations and extended detention for reasons related to “state security.”

I will be traveling to Shanghai and Beijing in October, and had already booked my r/t flights months before I became aware of the travel ban.

Have there been any reports of American tourists arbitrarily being detained in China due to this policy?

FYI:

- I have multiple stamps in my U.S. passport, including ones from the U.A.E. and Egypt.
Will this be an issue?
I ask is because I've read reports of individuals with middle East stamps in their passports having issues entering/leaving China.

- The travel advisory mentions that one of the reasons China may prevent U.S. citizens from leaving the country is to use them as pawns to resolve business disputes with American corporations (even if said individuals have nothing to do with the disputes).
I work for a major transit authority that does business with China. It's very conceivable that they may have certain disputes, and I don't want to get caught in the middle of it. Should I not mention that I work for this agency when I apply for my Chinese visa?

- Prior to entering mainland China, I will be visiting Hong Kong, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur and Taipei.
My Chinese coworker advises me not to visit these places before entering China because it may arouse suspicion of drug trafficking. He says I should "just stay in China".
Is there any validity to this?

I apologize if I sound paranoid. I just want to ensure my trip to China goes smoothly. If not, I'll cancel it. After all, the trip is for pleasure, not business.

If you or a member of your family is a former Chinese citizen that the Chine Governement is trying to arrest for corruption, then you need to worry. Otherwise, a non-event.

Anyone else care to chime in?

If you're in the sort of business or have the sort of family connections that make travel to China a bit of a risk, you would know it. Most big foreign companies have business in China these days. Not an issue.

That your friend thinks travel to those other countries on a trip to China would be an issue (for China) suggests he's not well clued-in.

In my experience, government-issued travel advisories serve two purposes: (a) giving government press officers something to defend themselves with if some visiting tourists do something stupid and get into trouble; (b) providing some extra diplomatic tools for negotiating with foreign states ("if you do/don't that, we'll change our travel advice"). I'd say unless you have some specific connection with the Chinese state or are planning to do something controversial, you'll be totally fine, and can safely ignore this travel advice.

That said, if you think you'll spend your entire holiday worrying about whether or not you'll be allowed to leave the country, I'd choose to go somewhere else and have a relaxing holiday. But I don't think you have anything at all to worry about, based on the facts you've provided above.

Most tourists to China come from Hong Kong, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur and Taipei. No issue here. Don't get advice from that friend.

Seriously? This dude is clearly off his rocker!

100% nonsense. Just because he's a Chinese living overseas doesn't mean he knows a wit about what goes on in China. I have multiple stamps from all four of those (Greater China) locations in my U.S. passport, and later this week I will be making my third trip of 2019 to China with no worries that I would be prevented from exiting. It's true that secret police are everywhere in China, physically and electronically, but they don't target the thousands of individuals every day who go back and forth between the Mainland and Greater China locations simply on the basis of having visited those places.

Since that travel advisory was posted last year, I've entered/exited China nearly 10 times without issue as a US citizen. I enter China every time from Hong Kong without any issue, no checks, no suspicion of drug trafficking. I have a coworker who enters/exits China daily from HK with a Canadian passport without issue. The only issue he has is he needs to get a new passport every few months as it fills up with entry/exit stamps.

He should get echannel; no stamps at all, though I think they are available upon request.

Oh I've suggested this to him multiple times but he doesn't have an RP and he's crossing every day on a tourist visa, not what I would do but to each their own.

Apart from the lack of stamps, echannel is extremely useful if you're going to Shenzhen often. Before I had it, I would avoid Shenzhen Bay crossing, due to the possibility of long lines, but I now use it almost exclusively, and can reliably get from end to end in under 10 minutes.

Thanks for all the helpful feedback, guys. Very encouraging news. I'm now strongly leaning towards keeping my travel plans intact.

To completely derail this thread, I wish I could get China eChannel, but alas, I only have a lowly M visa. I usually transit Shenzhen Bay. Typically my flight to HKG arrives on Saturday mornings, so I hit the checkpoint shortly after opening, definitely before 8AM. I've never had more than 15 minute wait usually between 5-10 mins. Last Saturday, I was able to use the Special lane with the APEC card for the first time. Usually the Special lane is longer than the foreigner line as they tend to send elderly mainlanders and those with young children to the Special lane. This time, foreigner line had 3 lanes open with maybe 4-5 people on each line. I noticed the Special lane was empty and popped on over there with only 1 ahead of me, 2 minutes tops to cross. Finally got some use out of the APEC card.

I also don't want to derail this thread because I believe we have a thread on RPs and echannel, but following are points that I know:
1) getting the Z visa was shockingly painful
-diploma and criminal background check both need state department and PRC consulate authentication; the former takes a bit of time, unless you show them an airplane ticket for the next day (which, you obviously won't be using)
-the medical check is pretty easy, but only certain hospitals can do it
-need to write a job posting for your own job in Chinese
-although I normally prefer to do things myself, in this case using an agent was the right path

2) If you are a student, I have to believe X visas are much easier
-your school simply issues them on its own, so not much bureaucracy
-they will presumably arrange an appointment at the hospital for you

3) I'm not certain about other visa types, but I think at least Q1 works

You don't have anything to worry about. Look at all the thousands to tens of thousands of US citizens who enter and leave China every day. You aren't important enough to get caught up in something like this. If you were important enough to be a target, you'd know it. I'm talking about very high profile CEOs of multinational corporations (Tim Cook, etc.). Even Elon Musk went to China recently to announce that Tesla was opening a new factory in Shanghai and he didn't have any problems getting out.

Since we're derailing threads, I'll give it a shot at derailing my own. :)

Can anyone give me advice on how I should prepare in the event that my Air China LifeMiles award (PEK-JFK) is not honored once I arrive at Beijing Capital airport for my flight back home?
Will I be able to buy a ticket at the airport using my U.S. credit card (are they accepted in China?), or will I have to carry thousands of dollars in cash?
How exorbitant would a last-minute ticket like this cost?

As I've mentioned in another thread, there have been horror stories of CA stranding passengers on mileage awards.

This will be my first time in China, so I'm a bit apprehensive of this potential scenario.

FYI: I flew CA last year (PEK-SFO) and my award (booked with United miles) was honored. CA staff even somehow knew to talk to me in English and to my wife in Chinese. But if it's not honored? I suppose you could book a ticket with a US credit card at http://www.airchina.com/ as a last resort, and then go after them or your AV for the funds later.

What do you mean with "not being honored"? Never heard of any "horror stories" regarding those. Same background as your "friend" telling you stories on how about this thread originated?

You get an award ticket on CA. No difference to a paid ticket.

(Western) credit cards are widely accepted at hotels and (bigger) chains in modern malls. For airline tickets, using credit cards is perfectly normal.

For smaller amounts and local shops, it's better to have WeChat Pay or AliPay setup, since cash really is a hassle and so outdated.

I think Q1 is basically useless because like a Z visa you'll need to apply for a residence permit once you land in China. So instead of getting a Q1 you could just get a Q2 and then apply for the residence permit once you are in China. In fact when my work residence permit ran out while overseas this is exactly what my visa agent told me to do, i.e., get a Q2 and then convert to a normal work residence permit once I'm back in China.

ok, that's new to me. I've flown CA F quite a few time on good old USDM tickets (give me the whole nose of a B747, two personal toilets ;) , two FA's only there for me and super easy award availability on pretty much every route (did it 6 times long haul, always was the only pax!) over a possibly slightly better product from other airlines that I've to fight over) and I never had issues with those tickets at all. And considering there are no recent reports from what I can see, it looks like the communication issues between the US / Canadian carriers and CA is fixed for a while now.

Again, I flew CA F out of PEK, booked as an award ticket via another *A carrier (UA in this case), last year, and did not have any problems. While it's good to have contingency plans in place in case anything goes wrong, constantly worrying about everything that possibly could go wrong will absolutely ruin your trip. Assume that everything will go smoothly because honestly, that's the most likely scenario.

I've flown from Maui to California many times. Most flights, probably around 40 of them, went out as scheduled, with me on them. A few were delayed. Only one was cancelled. Once it was cancelled, I had to spend another night on Maui. But you know what I didn't do? I didn't spend my entire trip worrying about what would happen if my flight was cancelled. That would have absolutely ruined the whole trip. Nor did I spend my entire trip worrying about what would happen if our rental car got a flat tire in an area with no cell coverage (also possible, but not the most likely scenario). Nor did I spend the time before my trip worrying about what would happen if a hurricane hit during the trip. Etc.

I'd take screenshots and copies of the CA PNR. If this extremely unlikely scenario should happen, then I'd take the following steps:
1. Show the CA PNR to the check-in agent and ask what happened. Ask them nicely to be put back on the flight in the same class of service.
2. Ask them nicely to be put on an alternate flight, departing the same day, in the same class of service. Escalate to a manager if necessary. But be kind to them and remember that the people you're talking to aren't responsible for the problem you're facing.
3. If asking them nicely fails, then book a ticket with your credit card and then deal with the situation later.
4. Once you get home, call CA and explain the situation, and ask them nicely to be refunded, given the situation. Escalate to a manager if you need to. But be kind to them and remember that the people you're talking to aren't responsible for the problem you're facing.
5. If that fails, follow up with a demand letter sent via certified mail asking them to pay, and submit all relevant documentation. Keep a copy of the letter.
6. If they still fail to pay, then sue them in small claims court to recover the money. The court will ask to see documentation that you've tried to work it out directly with the other party, which you should have at this point. Hopefully they offer to settle.
7. If they don't offer to settle, then come to court and show the Judge your documentation, and get a judgment against them ordering them to pay.
8. If they fail to pay the judgment voluntarily, then get the court to seize assets so you get paid (the judgment debtor must provide a list of assets to the court or they'll be held in contempt of court).

But, remember, you should not worry about steps 1-8 unless something actually happens with your reservation. Because if you worry about every little thing that can possibly go wrong with your trip, you're going to give yourself an ulcer.

I think your time would be best spent researching some common scams like the "black taxi scam" or the "Beijing tea scam" so that you can avoid them, particularly if you don't look Chinese. Interestingly, I've spent time walking around the major tourist areas of Beijing dressed very much like a tourist and I've never once been approached by the tea scam people, but that's probably because no one thinks I'm a foreigner in China. But really, all you need to do is spend about 10 minutes researching all of these scams and how they work and you'll immediately know if someone's trying to scam you. Some guy at the airport tried to pull the black taxi scam on me one time (turned out to be my first time in Beijing by myself), and even though I did not know about it, I suspected something was wrong because it just didn't seem right to me (what kind of taxi driver waits for a potential customer while he buys a SIM card, gets cash at an ATM, and uses the restroom?).. Once he gave his initial price, I decided to "test" him by saying it was too expensive, and the price magically dropped by 50%. Then it dropped another 15-20% after I said that was still too expensive. At which point, I told him that I don't trust him and got a real taxi at the official taxi waiting area at less than 1/6 of his initial price. :D

Back to the OP's original question - it's a reasonable one to ask, given high-profile retentions of former Canadian officials in apparent retaliation for the arrest of the Huawei executive, along with some past instances of detentions. The risk is very low, but not non-existent. If there's a pattern, it's when an executive works for a company that has a dispute or difficult negotiation with a prominent Chinese company or SOE, or a government investigation of the company for legal violations. It's definitely not arbitrary - there's a purpose always. They don't just pick up a random American because they're upset with trade negotiations; they get the one they think can maximize leverage.

Hard to know without having you post things it's best not to post whether you fit into that risk category. As you mention public transit, it is possible if China Railway Rolling Stock is negotiating with your employer you could be attractive, but there are likely more attractive targets in the company who are more directly involved (and I assume you're not going for work because you mention not putting it on your visa application - they'll know who you work for if you're negotiating).

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it, but good to be aware.

The Canadians who were detained were not travelers. They are being accused of spying which is plausible.

Sound advice, but my CA booking is a LifeMIles award. But, I guess the same procedure can be applied in the event of a problem (with a few tweaks and modifications).

^

What I find particularly attractive about my CA award is the fact that I'll be flying the 747-8, which I've never been on (only older versions of the 747).

Exactly why I flew CA! I wanted to fly the 747-8. What was strange is that F was not at the front, or on the upper deck, but in the middle of the lower deck, behind business class.

There should be two PNRs. There is a PNR with the operating carrier (CA in this case) which I don't believe UA gave me in the email when I booked. I had to either dig through multiple menus on the website or call their customer service to get it, but they did give it to me. Take a copy/screenshot of that PNR so that if anything happens to your reservation, you can refer to it. This isn't just for flying award tickets on CA though. Whenever I fly, I try to have screenshots of the reservation on me (usually in my computer) as well as paper boarding passes if possible, so that if the computer system crashes, the airline can still see that I have a confirmed ticket. One time, I did a mileage run to SJU and the power was out when I got there, and the gate agents were processing tickets manually.

Yes, I found that odd too. But, I suppose the rationale for that arrangement is that further back in the main cabin is more spacious than in the nose (and upper deck), making it more suitable for First Class. However, I do find the nose to be the quietest cabin on the 747 by far (aside from the occasional noise from pilots moving around in the cockpit above you).

I have both PNR's, even though I never got a confirmation email from LIfeMiles (I just took a screenshot of my booking on their site). Had to do a little digging to get CA's PNR myself. But I did contact CA to confirm my seat selection, and got an affirmative response. So, I'll print that out and take it with me, too.

May also simply be more feasible to use identical seats when you don't have to deal with the curvature of the nose.

Any idea if Q2 (I'm married to Chinese) can apply for eChannel? No plans on working or doing real job, at least not anytime soon. but I travel a lot.

Assume no. Travel a lot does not mean anything unless you are a repeated traveler for the same place.

I live in China, and have left 6-8 times on overseas trips so far this year.

But I saw in another place where Moondog wrote you need an RP, which I do not have. Used to have it for Hong Kong but that didn't have any visa or residency rules.

Q2 itself is not eligible. However, since your spouse is a Chinese national, you can simply apply for a residence permit at her registered resident city which would make you eligible for eChannel.

That would immediately invalidate the Q2, no? And then to keep eChannel, wouldn't you have to keep renewing the residence permit? Q2 for US citizens can be issued for 10 years (good) but isn't eligible for eChannel (bad). But a residence permit is eligible for eChannel (good) but also must be renewed every year AFAIK (which is annoying).

There are also 3 year and 5 year RPs, the requirements vary by region. For example, many places have elaborate points based schemes. Meanwhile, Shanghai seems most concerned about tax contribution (e.g. 10k per month in taxes paid for an A iirc).

Maybe you should start a thread about what the requirements are in each region. I think 10k per month in taxes may be a problem for someone who doesn't plan to ever work in China.

Are there any rules about having to spend more time in China than outside China if you have a RP? Because even if I otherwise meet the requirements, that would be a big problem for me (and anyone else who can probably better describe himself/herself as a frequent visitor to China but not really a permanent resident).