Nanning
 

As some of you know, my company has an office in Nanning, but until today I didn't have a chance to visit. Well, now I'm here, and I want to tell you about it in this thread. (There are not many threads on 3rd tier cities without tourist attractions here, so my insights can be extrapolated to other cities that receive few foreign visitors.)

Flying in, what initially struck me was how green the landscape is... just like nice parts of Thailand.

Then, when I exited baggage claim, my second impression was -- man, there are a lot of people here. Since I live in one of the most populous cities in the world, this observation might surprise you, but I guess my point is that Shanghai has pretty good infrastructure for dealing with millions of people living on top of each other, whereas this place does not.

Third impression: construction everywhere and in excess. Again, I've lived through the construction booms in Nanjing, Shanghai, and Beijing -- the latter two arguably being the largest in the history of the world. But, these guys are basically rebuilding their entire city in 100 acre plots.

Fourth, the presence of western brands here is scant in comparison with tier 1 and tier 2 China. I was already prepared for this, but seeing it person has really resonated with me. Basically, 6 million people, many of which have lots of money, and they don't have access to the same LV bags that the rest of China covets. In other words, the big brands spend 90% of their marketing budgets beating each other up in Beijing and Shanghai, while completely ignoring this virgin soil.

That's all for now. I'll try to get out and take some pictures tonight.

Good insights, but also, although there is probably a lot of increasingly wealthy people in tier 3 cities, there may not be enough to sustain uber-expensive brands such as LV or Ferrari. But they would support middle tier branding, such as Nike, Levis etc. If I were into such things, which I'm not, facilitating the entry of such 'middle class' aspirational brands into tier 3 cities would likely be highly profitable.

Of course, I'm not convinced this is in the best interest of China's people -- they probably should try to steer a course from the quagmire of western capitalism before it is utterly too late. But hey ho, that would be veering into OMNI territory -- and I almost never visit OMNI!

tb

Moondog,

Your first impression observation of Nanning is right on.
I first set foot in NNG was in 2008, and have returned yearly.

Sometime ago, I wrote a long winded trip report that included a bit on Nanning. I do like the Marriott. Link to the report, scroll to Post #:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-...dventures.html

I'm moving there, guys. Please visit me, and bring me foods that I like. :cool:

I hope the pay is good! And this will solve your car license issues!

tb

HSR ?
 

I was in Nanning last fall, & the growth is amazing. Beihai is only a couple hours away....

Also Guangxi knows how to use the two south china sea ports to grow the export business to asean market from this province.

when will the HSR to Nanning be done ??

I'm not planning on staying there forever! The reason I'm going is that our guys down there are creating a new company to sell foreign products in Guangxi, and want me to help them get things rolling.

My initial visit to Nanning was too brief (24 hours, 4 of which I spent in the hospital because of my foot injury) to draw any sweeping conclusions, but think Shanghai 1995.

Currently reported:
August 2013 - Beihai-Nanning
November 2013 - Wuzhou-Nanning

Next Monday is my big send off. While I've been to numerous 3+tier cities the closest I've come to living in one was three months in 1995 nanjing. And that was pretty rough.

Random question: will my sh Unicom number roam there nicely? I'm on set b.

Second question: is the Marriott in a convenient area? While there is no way I would live there I'm guessing they have nice food.

Seriously, you're moving from Shanghai to Nanning so suddenly? How long do you expect to be there? Will you keep your place in Shanghai for weekends or whatever?

BTW, what's the foot injury?

It should; I've been using a SZ Unicom number all over the place for the last 4 years with no problems. The reload cards aren't region-specific, and I've never had trouble topping up online even from overseas.

Coverage might not be as good as on Mobile, though.

The Marriott is in one of the new business areas, but not the CBD of Nanning.

Since Nanning is the provincial capitol of Guangxi, the PRC would define it as a Tier 2 city. But business might only be a Tier3 type city.

The golf courses are better in Beihai !.

To me, Tier 2 refers to places like Hangzhou, Xiamen, and Nanjing. It's not so much about size or importance as it is about development levels and per capita GDP. McKinsey shares this view.

Nanning
 

Does this mean Monday the 17th is your last Big Bamboo night for the foreseeable future?

I'm leaving on the morning of the 17th so no Monday Club for me, but I plan on coming back at least once a month. Perhaps we can convene at GY on Sunday evening.

I'm amazed. How can you move to a different city so quickly? Do you have an apartment in Nanning already or will you live in a hotel for a while? Will you keep your Shanghai place, at least until the end of the lease? From what you've said, it sounds like this was a complete surprise or at least negotiated when you first visited Nanning as you posted in the OP of this thread. I would have thought that moving between cities in China would be a long and complicated process.

Why amazed? Not only is this incredibly easy to pull off in China, it's the norm. Things happen fast. You look over apartments for a couple of days in a new city, negotiate and sign lease, move in soon after. Most apartments are owned by private landlords, so you either find them directly or work through a local agent (bunch of sharks, those). Of course, it helps to be familiar with China, and have enough inherent knowledge to know instinctively what a good apartment is, and what a good deal is. It gets easier with practice. :p

Move in, register with wuye (apartment management), register with neighborhood police, get utilities set up or transferred (usually not much issue since they are often in landlord's name). Most utilities in China are done with prepaid account cards that are topped up, rather than billed in arrears such as done in USA. Have moving company send down stuff from previous city.

If it's a longer term move rather than a temporary placement, employer needs to get the local Labor Bureau to redo the Work Permit, local Tax Bureau to get the required remittances going, and local Public Security Bureau to re-issue the Chinese Residence Permit for Foreigners for that new jurisdiction. This paperwork stuff is the real pain in the butt, not the physical logistics part.

If you have a really good deal in your old city and will go back there a lot, maybe it makes sense to keep the apartment, but usually rents in places like Beijing and Shanghai are way too expensive to do this. Tossing away USD 1000-2000 per month just for a bit of convenience is extravagant unless you're on the Executive Plan. And if you already have friends in the old city, you'd just stay with them for short visits. Or stay at a small hotel/serviced apartment you've managed to strike up a good relationship with the management...assuming you're paying for things yourself and employer isn't picking up tab.

Nanning is interesting.
They are building a subway last time i was there a few years ago.

Very close to Vietnam n their mandarin accent is so different from the north.
Lots of scooters around like those in taiwan or vietnam, quite unlike shanghai.
The southern chinese food is good too n much cheaper than in pvg.

Didnt get to visit the beach area but heard it is nice.
A few hours away by train/bus.

Like jiejie said, moving between cities in China is super easy. I'm still going to keep the Shanghai place because I am lazy, but I could ship everything down there for less than 1500.

I'm a bit nervous about moving onto this new chapter of my life, but I'm also excited. I promise to keep you guys updated here and on weixin (moondogsh).

I spent 8 hours at sha in order pull it off but I made it! Pics on weixin

First impressions:
 

This place seriously reminds me of Shanghai during the late 90s... scooters, shirtless dudes, and poor fashion. But, I must say that it is a beautiful city, and the people are awesome (e.g. the FA from my flight actually brought me to my hotel!). I hope you guys can make time to visit me down here; I will be on top of the social scene within two weeks for sure... and jiejie's legendary itineraries will start to feature Nanning in due course :p

Sorry to nitpick on something so small, but this has me going ??? because my impression has always been that they're postpaid like in the US- you use your utilities, get a bill in the mail, scan the barcode at a convenience store or other payment terminal, pay in cash or swipe your card depending on where you pay, and done. I also assumed my mom's practice of keeping the utilities in her name when renting out apartments in Shanghai was standard, but I apparently now stand corrected on that too.

It's certainly pre-paid where we live. Forgot to top-up the electricity: no power!

And with regards to the bolding: not short of a bob or two then?! :p

tb

Her point was not about post paid v. pre paid, but the fact that this stuff is super easy here.

No, several years ago regulations in nearly all Chinese cities required that all new residential construction be designed for prepaid utilities. Older construction has been in various stages of being converted over. Traditionally it was like the USA, with a utility meter representative looking at meters, recording what was used during the last interval, then invoices being sent out (typically invoices would go to the management company of the property who would then redistribute them to residents).

Change came about as an energy- and water-saving measure, the idea being that if people had to pay upfront and proactively watch their meters and their usage to avoid running short, they would be more careful about usage. This has indeed proved to be the case. Though there are some variations on a theme, generally each residential unit will have one electricity meter, one gas meter, and sometimes water meters (for cold and hot). Each meter is registered to a particular unit an address, and a chipped card (size of a credit card) is issued for that meter. These cards are normally issued to the Owner of the unit, and in a rental situation, they are provided to the tenant along with the keys, to be returned at conclusion of the lease.

Normally the meters are inside the unit or outside in a common area where the resident can read them--typically they count down towards zero as utilities are used. It becomes a standard household ritual to regularly check the meters and top up when necessary. It's no fun to run out of electricity at 10:00 pm or gas when in the middle of cooking dinner (I've done both, oops!) Top up is done by taking the relevant utility card to a utility office, a bank, or to a remote utility payment kiosk (looks like an ATM) where one can pay utilities with one's Chinese bank debit card. You get a receipt and nearly instantaneously, the amount purchased is added to the meter.

This is standard ritual now for electricity and gas. And in some places water. Water is subdivided by "cold water" "hot water" and "toilet water" (sewer ;)) In other apartment complexes, one large water invoice is delivered to the property management company and they divide it up according to the legal apartment gross square meters. (The bigger your apartment, the more you pay). This is also done for most apartments that are served by central city steam plant heating--though typically that is included in one's rent so landlord deals with heating through the management company. Telephone and internet service for land lines are the one item that bills in arrears. However, IME you don't get sent an invoice, you go to a telephone/internet office, tell them your address, they tell you the bill, you pay and get itemized receipt. (Online payment is now available). Some landlords keep the landline in their name; others (especially in brand new construction) have the tenant do it if tenant is willing or wants it in their name for some reason. Non-prepaid mobile phones also have a post-paid system.

More than you ever wanted to know about utilities in China. :D But yes as moondog points out, the overall conclusion is that the Chinese method makes moving from place to place (intercity or intracity) fairly easy from a physical logistics standpoint.

Originally from Shanghai and my girl friend's family still residing in Nanning, I'm really amazed to see a thread dedicated to Nanning! I personally enjoyed my visit to the city and do recommend you stop there for a day or two on your way to Guilin/Yanshuo or Beihai.


definitely agree.



your number will roam perfectly.

they do have great food. Check out Jian Guo Lu.






Everyone is clear about tier 1. But tier 2 and tier 3 is really hard to say. I don't think there's an official definition out there.



I have the same impression. Their CBD area looks really good, probably better than Shanghai in the late 90s while they definitely don't enjoy the same architecture heritage that Shanghai boasts.

Today, I commenced the apartment search. For a mere 3000, it's possible to get a very nice place.

On the downside, the heat is super intense, and there really isn't much foreign stuff at all (hence the opportunity, I suppose). I will try to post more pics on weixin tonight or tomorrow.

more observations
 

-I think I found a suitable apartment today; it is very nice, has a swimming pool, and there are acceptable dining options nearby (Mixc, Marriott, and a strip of river front restaurants)
-Many cafes, bars, and restaurants don't open until 5p at the earliest, and the city seems to be desolate before then... presumably because the heat really is intense
-the Ole grocery store in Mixc is arguably the nicest I've seen in all of China, but it was also completely dead when we went there this afternoon. I asked one of the sales people there about this and she told me that business usually doesn't pick up until after 6p. She showed me a bottle of 82 Lafite (y100,000) and said the sell around 10 per week, which impressed me
-I'm staying in the old part of town now because that's where our current office is, and I really dislike it. It is a world removed from the CBD. However, I think I will still need to do some business over here because these people comprise "the bottom of the pyramid", which is where the future lies. While they are poor, they still buy stuff, and they won't be poor forever

Unlikely to be real though -- apparently China sells more bottles of Chateau Lafite and Latour per year than total annual production. And those are for recent vintages. For classics like the '82, I doubt a 'grocer' like Ole, who isn't a specialist wine merchant would have access to more than 1 case of that wine, if that, for the whole of China.

And even if it was real, that is a 5x mark-up over the auction price for that vintage (which is a believable price).

tb

I'm aware of this factoid, as well, but if you could see just how nice Ole is, you might have a little bit more confidence in them. It is similar to City Shops in Shanghai, but enormous. Simply beautiful product presentation... makes Carrefour look like Grocery Outlet.

Living in Tier 3 cities is the best part of China! (at least for short periods of time before one feels the need to retreat back to civilization)

Nanning isn't even that bad....I think there are 10 foreigners in Shantou. I'd imagine there are quite a few backpackers in Nanning.

I've been to an Ole, I think in Shenzhen. It's nice enough, but I still state that it's highly improbable that they can source 500 (or even 50) bottles of Lafite '82 per year.

tb

In the hostels of Nanning, you can easily find 200+ (or more) backpackers from western countries. Not to mention the tie between Nanning and Southeast Asian countries.

That's probably the case of a lot of southern tier 3, tier 4 cities in China, imho.

Have you found anyplace similar to Grand Yard yet Moondog? How is the look around treating you there?

Nanning is popular as a quick-stop for a day for overland travelers, as it is the primary connection point to/from Hanoi. Nanning and Hanoi are quite close geographically and it is very inexpensive to get between the two by train or bus. However, it rarely figures into most tourist plans as an extended stop.

If the temperature inside the GY never dropped below 90 degrees, then my answer would be a qualified "yes".

Let's just leave at the fact that there are a lot of smart phones in use down here. ;)

De Tian Waterfall Nanning

Looks like Shangrila^

http://www.chinahotelsreservation.co.../nanning_3.jpg

Detian Waterfall is hardly "in" Nanning--it's about a 3-hour drive away on the border with Vietnam. Best to visit later in the rainy season when the water flow will be at its greatest.

Nanning is not a provincial capital because Guangxi is an autonomous region, not a province.

Nanning is also the poorest of all autonomous region capitals, provincial capitals and municipalities of China:

1. Guangzhou 10 5909 yuan
2. Nanjing 9 1384
3. Tianjin 9 1181
4. Changsha 9 0258
5. Hangzhou 8 8661
6. Huh-hoto 8 6734
7. Beijing 8 6024
8. Shanghai 8 4444
9. Shenyang 8 1505
10. Wuhan 7 9878
11. Jinan 6 9900
12. Zhengzhou 6 2628
13. Urumqi 6 1493
14. Nanchang 5 9500
15. Changchun 5 8703
16. Fuzhou 5 8587
17. Chengdu 5 7842
18. Yinchuan 5 6318
19. Hefei 5 4997
20. Taiyuan 5 4574
21. Xian 5 1323
22. Haikou 5 0531
23. Lhasa 4 6941
24. Kunming 4 6815
25. Shijiazhuang 4 3777
26. Lanzhou 4 3261
27. Harbin 4 3128
28. Guiyang 3 9317
29. Chongqing 3 9257
30. Xining 3 8534
31. Nanning 3 1666

Which of these are tier 3?

Well, I have bolded those that I consider to be 1 and 2, which means that I define the rest to be 3+.

Your list underscores my point that capital status is only one factor when it comes tiers because a number of non-capitals certainly deserve tier 2, and Shenzhen makes a strong case for tier 1.

ETA: It seems that lists and bolding don't work well together. Suffice it to say, everything --except for Hohot-- above Wuhan is tier 1 or 2.
ETA2: It is hard to take official statistics about per capita GDP seriously for obvious reasons.