Some Tianjin locals consider it to be Tier 1 . I think most of us just say ok, SH BJ GZ SZ tier 1. Then Chengdu, Nanjing, maybe Tianjin and Chongqing and Wuhan, and the rest 3 or below. TJ ren are all too rich for their own good, but the development of the city is not on par with any of the others IMO.

I briefly visited Tianjin in May 2009, and found that it was relatively devoid of humanity. Wide boulevards, foreign concessions and a Ferris wheel built into a bridge, but none of the usual huddled masses yearning to be in each other's way.

Aberration? Or did everyone just avail themselves to the HSR to Beijing?

Tier cities
 

Some china locals would also say that Taiwan is a province...

We-chat has a blog on this Tier 1-2-3-4, they break the Tier 2 cities as; strong, medium, & weak. IMO, Qingdao, ( QD) is also a strong Tier 2 city, but not one of the capitol cities, & Ningbo a medium Tier 2.

From the list of above:

Tier 1
Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou (add Shenzhen)

Tier 2 (Upper)
Nanjing, Tianjin, Hangzhou, Shenyang, Wuhan, Chengdu (add Dalian, Chongqing, Suzhou)

Tier 2 (Lower)
Changsha, Jinan, Zhengzhou, Hefei, Xian (add Qingdao, Xiamen, Wuxi, ++)

Tier 3 and above
Hohhot, Urumqi, Nanchang, Changchun, Fuzhou, Yinchuan, Taiyuan, Haikou, Lhasa, Kunming, Shijiazhuang, Lanzhou, Harbin, Guiyang, Chongqing, Xining, Nanning (++)

The list I have is fairly close to sniles' but it's not just about GDP:

Tier 1
Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen

Tier 2 (Upper)
Tianjin, Chengdu, Chongqing, Wuhan, Hangzhou, Suzhou, Nanjing, Dalian, Shenyang

Tier 2 (Lower)
Xi'an, Qingdao, Ningbo, Xiamen

Tier 3 (Upper)
Jinan, Zhengzhou, Hefei, Wuxi, Changsha, Dongguan

Tier 3 (Lower)
Harbin, Changchun, Changzhou, Nantong, Fuzhou, Kunming, Nanning

Tier 4--a real mixed bag
Urumqi, Xining, Lanzhou, Yinchuan, Hohhot, Taiyuan, Shijiazhuang, Luoyang, Nanchang, Guiyang, Haikou

Takeaway: there is a lot of potential (= opportunity) for those willing to live/work/invest in the Tier 3 and 4 cities.

another update: moved in
 

Hello, all.

A drill that takes half a day in Shanghai (apartment search), required 3.5 days of my time last week. The real estate agents here just don't seem to care all that much, and the landlords are terrible about keeping appointments. On one occasion, we waited for an hour so a landlord could finish his afternoon nap. But, I'm sure Shanghai used to be like this before it evolved into an efficient business center. I told this tale to one of my new expat friends here, and he opined that: 1) like many places in China, Nanning has great hardware but horrible software; 2) Shanghai and Guangzhou are the only two cities in China that have both.

In the end, we got the apartment that I wanted. People say that I overpaid, but by the end of the 3.5 day search, I really wanted to put this task to bed (plus, every hotel night was the difference between a fair price and what we paid).

In one of the earlier posts, Jiatong mentioned that the CBD is rather sterile, and removed from the action. He is correct on both counts; it's very similar to Lujiazui in this regard. That having been said, while I would never dream of living in LJZ again (because the rest of Shanghai is awesome), I had absolutely no interest in living elsewhere in Nanning. It's sort of like Shuangjing (where I used to live in Beijing); lots of cool apartment complexes, trees, and rich people. It took 5 years before interesting businesses attacked Shuangjing, and I believe the same trend will take place here fairly soon. In fact, I am going to encourage some of restaurant friends to open stores here. The rents are no more than 25% of BJ/SH, they can charge BJ/SH prices, and their is intense demand (anyone who drives a Bentley will gladly pay a premium for quality food of any kind).

As of now, all of the retail space in the area is filled with real estate offices, banks, convenience stores, and hole-in-the wall restaurants that lack air conditioning. The 5 minute walk to Mixc in order to avail of acceptable food isn't such a big deal, but if you were to give me anything comparable on this side of the street, I would be happy as a clam. (Off topic: The reason Cantina Agave --Shanghai-- exists is because the owner, who is in the garment trade, was frustrated by the fact that all Mexican food in China sucks, so he took matters into his own hands... that place is always packed.)

While I was initially a bit hesitant to leave behind my sweet life in Shanghai (and I haven't really "left"), I'm now 95% sure that this decision will pay dividends. Basically, I was in Shanghai and Beijing during both of their respective rises to greatness (the former was late 90s; the latter was 2001-2008), but I failed to capitalize on these trends because the Chinese were simply better connected. (I'm not alone; very few foreigners cashed in on these booms.) However, the instant case is different because the people here don't have access to foreign companies, and foreign companies have yet to see the light. They need to be lured in.

I'm going to be here for at least a year for 60% of the time. If any of you are interested in exploring business opportunities (or simply hanging out in a place you would never fathomed visiting in your wildest dreams), please feel free to email/PM me, and we can discuss. Even if the Chinese economy implodes (as many predict), my new neighbors will continue to have 7 figure (USD) bank accounts.

Could have made tons of money buying blocks of apartments in the early days, before they limited foreigner purchases.
Granted you would need some capital, but the returns were astronomical.

I was 21 and 26 at both of those times. While my family could have easily coughed up enough coin to buy 10 apartments, they thought China was a pipe dream. Maybe it still is. All I can say is that if I owned a Bentley, and lived in Nanning, I would drop a .... ton of coin if I didn't have to walk/drive across the big street.

That's what I thought, they will seize property owned by foreigners, at any time they can deny visas. You will get ripped off. You have no guanxi. Why do I have to pay such a high deposit, in US can buy zero down?

Meanwhile, the chinese are saying Wenzhou business men are making millions buying up apartments in Shanghai. Even if you are uninformed (stupid) you can make a lot of money.

As a foreigner residing outside China..well I passed on it.

The limits can be worked around if you have someone you can trust to help. In my mom's case it was her sister, who was still a Chinese citizen. They rent out apartments in downtown Shanghai for a pretty decent amount, so they seem to be coming out ahead.

Shanghai rent yields are among the worst on the planet. My place is worth $700,000, and my rent is $600... that's .05% per year! The ONLY reason to buy apartments in Shanghai is anticipated appreciation.

Back on the Nanning topic, I met a lady at Starbucks yesterday who recently purchased a very large US company, and she asked me to help her. We have an afternoon meeting planned at my pool (she has a Bentley and $10 million worth of rock memorabilia, but no swimming pool).

That's why they would never finish off the shells. Just let them sit.

The apartment was built six years ago; colorful fliers from small businesses cover the walls of the building's hallways. It's just the skeleton of a living space, really; rooms with walls and uneven bare concrete floor and not much else — no appliances, no wooden flooring or carpeting, no usable toilet even.

June 23, 2013

Concrete Floors! No Working Toilet! Just $200K In Shanghai

There's no shortage of girls that will gladly put property in their name
to circumvent the rules for foreigner purchases.:D

Then you have this on the US side.

Chinese woman buys US$6.5m Manhattan apartment - for her two-year-old daughter.

A Chinese mother bought a US$6.5 million apartment in Manhattan for her daughter to live in while studying at Columbia University.
He said the woman told him her daughter would be going to Columbia University, New York University or maybe Harvard. “So I said how old is your daughter, and she said she was two". :p

Are you sure..?

I bet the lady is a baofahu kind person..

120 sqm x 50,000/sqm = 6 million

BTW, Starbucks lady just came over for a quick swim; she is simply amazing. She wants us to do great things in Nanning and is willing to put her resources behind our mission.

Guys, I'm on the hook for an entire year. Surely, some of you can think of business opportunities that are well suited for the fastest growing market in all of Asia. Let's brainstorm, please! I'm the guy that's actually on the ground; your part is easy.

business stuff
 

Guys:

Since about 1/3 of you have MBAs, and the other 2/3 understand how the world turns, I humbly seek your advice on this Nanning thing. My short term mission is to sell beer in order to refine our software product. Since the locals here seem to like beer, this should be easy.

That having been said, I have enough resources at hand to do something great. And, I'm not talking about buying apartments to hold. I want to help these people live better lives, and make some money in the process. Give me smart ideas, please.

10-20k/sqm for top floor apartments in xuhui and luwan.
25k for old houses in Shanghai.

50 plus floor 600sqm apartments in Pudong for 8k/sqm.

I guess those people got real rich.

40-60k/sq. m is absolutely standard where we live -- and I'm pretty sure we're nowhere near the most expensive part of BJ. SH will be even more in the very desirable areas. Although everyone is convinced this isn't a bubble -- because the Chinese govnt won't let it be, I'm not so sure.

tb

I thought it was a bubble when it was 10k/sq. m.
3-4 seemed true value.

Chinese govt won't let the bubble burst.
When you have so much money and so much control and
solid expectations of future growth, the people are correct...
there is no bubble..it's the egg of a golden goose.

It's a bubble, and on your last point, I'm sure it will pop and it will be ugly for some residential unit owners and commercial speculators who are overextended. On a governmental basis, the days of living high on the hog off of selling land rights to developers at the expense of more thoughtful, rational and sustainable economic plans...are likely numbered.

I don't believe Nanning is a bubble at this point in time. I haven't seen any apartments here that cost more than 10k/sqm, and 5k is the standard.

Switching topics, I registered with the police today, and was the first foreigner to ever do so. It was an arduous process.

True. I was actually referring more to the Tier 1 and some Tier 2 cities. There's still a lot of room to run in some cities further down the tiers. The main thing to watch is the apartment price rises vs the rise in incomes. When the former completely outstrips the latter by orders of magnitude, trouble is down the road somewhere. This happens around the world, just like gravity. There are no exceptions and this will happen in China also.

Having seen this from the development side, one of the biggest problems has been the cost of acquiring land rights. By the time the developer pays the government for this (official price plus whatever extortionate backhanders are involved), then add in the cost of relocation of existing residents which is normally 2nd largest cost, there is no equation that financially makes sense other than to build higher-end housing which a huge proportion of the locals that actually need new housing, can't afford. It's a vicious and self-perpetuating cycle. On the non-residential side, market metrics and due diligence as one would do in the west before Go/No-Going a decision, is not a driver. Politics and being able to crony up some lending from friendly bankers is. Which is why you see so many projects that make absolutely no sense.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/1548/m7ag.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Nice big pool and we know you like to swim. :) Is this your new apt complex? One good thing about being in Nanning is the climate is more conducive to outdoor swimming for much more of the year than Shanghai.

Not only is the pool in my complex, but the entrance is literally 10 meters away from our doorway. I really like it!

The thing is, pool or not, I still don't enjoy going outside during the heat of the day. While Shanghai is also hot this time of the year, the smog layer really helps prevent those direct sun rays from penetrating me.

Switching topics, taxis are really hard to fetch here, and the buses don't seem to have aircon.

Maybe get the car you were trying for earlier in Shanghai? Or at least an electric bike.

I think they banned electric bicycles as they realized the bikes circumvented the law to ban motorcycles based on theft which in actuality was a ban based on "face".

:confused: Most cities still have plenty of electric bicycles. In most cities they aren't treated in the same category as motorcycles, at least the pedal style (more bicycle-like vs scooter/moped-like). I don't know specifically about Nanning.

There are many here.

The vegetation around the pool makes it look like a tropical garden....and the pool is huge. Wow! I think moondog is going to like his new place.

I thought this was more like a typical street in China.:p

http://www.chinawhisper.com/wp-conte...erations-8.jpg

It is a typical photo. However, the operable word in your sentence is "street." The electric bicycles are not in your photo because they are not in the street. Electric bikes generally are in the bike lanes and going down the sidewalks. :p

beat me to it jiejie!

The electric bikes are immensely irritating. Our campus has a ban on motorbikes, but it's entirely irrelevant when many of the electric bikes can manage 20-30 mph, and moreso, are ridden by complete idiots.

tb

Bicycles aren't really banned, just no need
for them when you have Audi A8s.

Chang'an Jie

1986

http://www.theurbancountry.com/wp-co...013/02/621.jpg


2012


http://rt.com/files/news/china-ban-e...great-hall.jpg

DH was watching CCTV and shouted out that Shanghai is sweltering at over 100 degrees F! We are just toasty in San Francisco. Other parts of the Bay Area are sweltering, too. moondog's pool looks so inviting.:)

anacapamalibu: thanks for the then and now pictures.

Shanghai at 100 is nothing. Try Wuhan in the summer. It's called the oven of China because 40 degrees Centigrade is a typical summer temperature.

pedant alert
 

To be fair: 40C is 104F -- not that different tbh! However, I think that it can be much more than 40C in Wuhan. Beijing is currently only mid-30s, but I fully expect it to be over 40C within a month.

tb

I lobbied really hard for the apartment with the nice pool. We could have gotten a place twice as big for the same price, but we really don't need 250 square meters, and our location is really great... employees can come here from the west side of town by bus, and we swim every day after work. One of them, who used to be lazy, even moved in. In addition to swimming, I have helped his social life a great deal (wechat). Now, he works until 1a!

You're kidding, I hope. Another employee just decided to move into your new apartment, permanently? And a whole gang of employees comes to use the pool every day after work? Does your building allow this? (I hate to think how many people might have moved in if you had a much bigger apartment; you'd be operating a dormitory for your company.)

The apartment is also our office for now, and I like this arrangement because I don't really need to leave during the heat of the day. All of our employees are welcome to live with me. I teach them swimming every day after work.