I checked the “add card” and it shows AmEx as an option. But I have no way of knowing if AmEx has a different success rate for charging directly.

The charge on my credit card just shows AliPay as the merchant and is equal to the RMB charge amount times the day’s exchange rate. Just like any other foreign CC transaction.

I guess I'll have to test this when international travel resumes.

I don't know if AliPay is converting it to USD or it's just passing the RMB to your Chase card. Assuming I am reading what you typed properly, then it means RMB is charged to the Chase card, which is great as I want Visa to handle the foreign exchange.

Yep exactly. Otherwise there would be a markup.

Assuming this solution sticks around, this could be the first time I can go completely cashless in China. I'm sort of surprised that you don't have an AMEX. Seems like I'm probably the only credit card fanatic in this thread, I'll be sure to test out Visa, Mastercard, and AMEX when I can go back to China. Last year, I thought it would be 2021. We're almost at the midway point of this year and it's starting to look like it'll be 2022 now.

I love the optimism but I think we need a major change in the covid narrative out of China and APAC in general for there to be tourism in 2022.

I honestly question whether China wants to ever open up again.

I have no doubt it's going to happen. The Asian countries want American tourism dollars. Most Americans will be fully vaccinated by the end of the year. China and the rest of the APAC countries are insane if they want to keep their borders closed.

Of course, it will happen, but when is anyone's guess. Shanghai seems to be bustling pretty well, in spite of the shortage in foreign faces. When I go to happy hour at 1515, guess who buys the Y2500 steaks and Y10,000 bottles of wine v who grabs the Y40 cocktails and free sliders?

lsquare If you are into $2,000 dinners, I would frown upon the extra 5% if I was your CFO.

I would actually bet money that the tourism industry in China is doing better with borders closed than open. The others, besides Singapore, will open up eventually after a long and economically damning political process.

Ive tried to explain a few different times that the 5% is not necessary in almost all cases. And certainly not at any place serving business dinners.

Alipay is way more useful than WeChat pay

My data set is limited because I only know about the Portman and the JA Shangri-la. Both are at 90% occupancy after dropping their rates by 10% since COVID came to town. The thing is, Goldman Sachs guys can't expense $2000 dinners unless they are closing a deal, but tourists don't face any restrictions of this sort, and American tourists tend to stick to budgets. If we have less of them and more Asians/Chinese, Shanghai makes out well.

[QUOTE=percysmith;33288131]I did that for AliPay with Canadian MasterCard.

IME The HK BoC mainland acct for WeChat works better for HK based users for frequent business visit to GBA.

[QUOTE=tentseller;33290202]Why is that account better?

I like them because they are cool with moon/dog and dog/moon. I am not willing to change my name on record at BOC.

Option 1 merchants pay a minimum of 1% transaction fee while option 2 merchants can get the money for free (they may have to pay a withdrawal fee of 0.1% but there are ways around that).

1515 will eat the 5% (i.e. just pay with your Amex), but Lawson's won't.

The amount of money spent by American tourists in China is dwarfed by the amount of money spent by Chinese tourists abroad. So from a purely financial point-of-view there is no incentive for China to open up to tourism.
Of course the border politics is much more complicated than just tourism and it probably doesn't even figure in the calculus of when to reopen.

Why would I use my AMEX there assuming they even accept it? Just use my Citi Prestige...

I was surprised to find out when I was in Beijing in 2019 that Quanjude accept AMEX.

I don’t know how many consecutive times I will need to repeat this to you, but for the sake of others not being misinformed:

There is no 5% markup when charging your foreign credit card at lawsons via AliPay tourist pass.

My last purchase at Lawsons was Saturday for 11RMB. My chase sapphire reserve has a charge for $1.73 corresponding to this purchase. $1.73 equals 11RMB times the exchange rate of that day.

Many apologies. The "tourist pass" is new territory for me, so I have zero clue about the math.

I really hope that's a long-term solution. I always get that look when I tell people I don't have WeChat Pay. It's not a global standard.

As mentioned, the Alipay tourist pass is new territory for me, but you definitely want to have WeChat Pay at your disposal as well. I went to an actual SF Express store (stupid idea) two weeks ago, and they only accepted WX (i.e. not even cash).

Gpay is kind of cool as well because you can exchange money with Chinese people using market rates.

As in Google Pay? How?

-I receive most of my income in CNY
-Converting it to USD entails a transaction fee + paperwork if I use official channels...and, I end up with actual greenbacks
-If I were to send you Y6,362.80 using Ali/WX, you could send me $1,000 via Gpay

-Gpay is also kind of useful in HK

Trust me I was equally surprised when I realized this worked. I use it everywhere now.

I also don’t agree with you that a business traveler or tourist needs WeChat pay. In fact I doubt they can even get a bank account as a tourist, but even if so that seems like way too much work.

To be fair, I'm talking about ONE incident among 10,000+ data points. I couldn't use WX because my ICBC account (attached to WX) was drained. I ended up doing a personal Ali transfer to the shopkeeper, so he could pay the tab himself.

This is correct. China doesn’t care about foreign tourists and they are making more money due to locking their citizens inside than they would ever make from foreigners coming in as tourists. China ain’t opening for foreign tourists for at least another 2 years. They don’t need them and frankly probably don’t really want them either.

Alipay is better than wechat pay.

The only value you and me provide at 1515 or Flair is our white faces.:D

Sometimes I find your posts a bit confusing to understand. Are you saying that you look for someone to exchange CNY for USD? Then you use Google Pay for a P2P payment? If so, I had no idea GPay can do that. Does it drain from your bank accounts?

No idea how GPay is kind of useful in HK. Without details, I have no idea what you're really saying. I suppose if the terminals can handle it, then that's good too. I just tap my physical card for convenience.

I think it's widely known that Chinese tourists spend tons of money abroad. I don't think I was disputing that. Are you guys not being presumptuous by suggesting that the Chinese tourists will just spend their money traveling in China instead? Even if true, is this sustainable long-term? Seems a bit dismissive to suggest that American tourism dollars aren't even wanted.

I guess I'll hold you to your words. I don't believe it'll take 2 more years, but I guess we'll see.

I'm using one post to reply to two of your posts:

-I get paid in CNY, but need USD for certain things
-you can use Gpay in HK, even at 711
-if I am occupying a table at 1515, I'm utilizing space that a whale could be availing of
-many American tourists and biz travelers can afford $2,000 dinners, but $40 at DTF is far more common

I was asking how you were using GPay to exchange money, but never mind, I give up.

It's really simple. I send other party ~6300 CNY, and he/she sends me 1000 USD.

And then I asked you how the funding for the transaction was made and that was ignored. lol...I'll just spend time looking that up then. I think GloballyServiced already gave me all that I need to know to be as cashless as possible in China.

By the time you're allowed to visit things will almost certainly have changed. I've noticed more and more stores, especially convenience stores, prominently displaying signs welcoming the digital yuan. When they allow tourists in again, 2 or more years from now, this will have overtaken wechat pay or alipay IMHO.

I first heard about the digital yuan a couple of years ago. I think the Economist talked about it recently. Very interesting development and I suspect we're on the cusp of a global revolutionary change.

Like I said earlier, people give me the weird look when I pay with cash...

Ignored? There are many ways to send CNY to other people.

Never mind bro. Just forget it.

Is it honestly difficult for you to understand this?
Let me attempt to make it clear:
-I send CNY to Party B through Ali, WX, or our banks
-Party B sends me USD via Gpay

If any of my prior posts have been cryptic, please advise.

I agree with you guys on this. If you read any of the pronouncements coming out of official channels the concerns from border closures are the impact on academic exchanges (including the difficulty Chinese students are having getting into/back into tertiary schools overseas) and the impact on business involving foreign companies as investors or customers of Chinese companies. I have not read one word about possible negative impact from the lack of foreign tourists.

The digital yuan is PBOC's end run on alipay and wechat pay. The ultimate goal is to replace them so that control is retained by the same authority that oversees banks and all monetary flows. Two years ago analysts estimated monetary flow volume within Alipay and Wechat exceeded the banking system with near zero visibility into that ecosystem by the authorities. That is not going to be allowed to continue.

They are trying to kill crypto as well. I think these are lost causes, but time will tell.