Proper Use of the Taxi Driver Tip
Nov 20, 2011 | 7:30 pm
#16
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Having said that, just because it's a "dog-eat-dog" world doesn't justify that it's right. It doesn't justify the behavior or that people should forget what common courtesy is. (i.e. like in the extreme case where a child is run over by a vehicle, and people just walk right by).
Nov 20, 2011 | 10:13 pm
#17
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I agree that the majority of the Chinese are pretty much crazy.
The shove you around, they push the close buttons, hog seats and what not.
However, I have seen really nice hearted Chinese who go beyond what was required by them.
The shove you around, they push the close buttons, hog seats and what not.
However, I have seen really nice hearted Chinese who go beyond what was required by them.
Nov 20, 2011 | 11:30 pm
#18
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Nov 21, 2011 | 10:32 am
#19
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Helpful Driver
Having read all the horror stories about Beijing taxis, I dreaded giving instructions in my skeletal Mandarin that I wanted to go to Xiao Wang Fu restaurant in Ritan. The driver was unexpectedly helpful, and stopped four times to ask people near the park what entrance to use and where the restaurant was. Later I regretted giving him only a 10rmb tip, as the alternative was to be dumped at the wrong entrance of a large nearly unlighted park.
Nov 21, 2011 | 5:27 pm
#20
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Having read all the horror stories about Beijing taxis, I dreaded giving instructions in my skeletal Mandarin that I wanted to go to Xiao Wang Fu restaurant in Ritan. The driver was unexpectedly helpful, and stopped four times to ask people near the park what entrance to use and where the restaurant was. Later I regretted giving him only a 10rmb tip, as the alternative was to be dumped at the wrong entrance of a large nearly unlighted park.
tb
Nov 22, 2011 | 1:37 am
#21
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But the population problem does cause levels of insanity that I do see in China, so I suppose crazy isn't so bad after all.
Nov 22, 2011 | 10:14 am
#22
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Relax. No need to get hostile. I already admitted that I didn't get it, especially in light of the misleading thread title. I've been to Hong Kong a number of times where people try to rush in to the subway stations before letting passengers out, so I'm guessing it's more or less the same. You could be right - maybe there's still a lot I need to know and learn about China.
Having said that, just because it's a "dog-eat-dog" world doesn't justify that it's right. It doesn't justify the behavior or that people should forget what common courtesy is. (i.e. like in the extreme case where a child is run over by a vehicle, and people just walk right by).
Also, I didn't 'imply' that that you have anything to be ashamed or apologize for. I asked explicitly. Certainly, you have nothing ashamed nor to apologized for (since it was the driver's decision that was questionable). But, it's certainly nothing to be thrilled at or write home about because you would be miffing all the same if you were in the other shoe.
Frankly, I have been in that situation before and looked to the other passengers to see if they were OK (but mostly there was a legitimate reason - they're waiting for other parties, too many people or luggage). In case where there is blatant line skipping (to my benefit), I actually point to the passengers to ensure that the driver sees that there are others ahead of me. I'm usually in no huge hurry. If he driver insisted, would I have refused? Probably not, but more often than not, I would wonder why the cab driver does what he did. Like I said, it's nothing to write home about.
I've done enough of international traveling (even where language is a barrier) to know I'd rather wait properly in a queue, then to skip ahead of the locals even though if the service provider assume we tip well as foreigner (which we do, but it is still beside the point).
It's conceivable (even if it seems unlikely in your mind) that the two women before you could have tipped okay too. Even if they don't tip as is the local customs, that doesn't mean they should be passed over by someone who does. The cab service provided you with good service, you should tip him properly. But, skipping other people to help you long before he knew how you were going to tip is not just good service, it's profiling of some sort.
Anyway, I'll leave it as is. It's just a genuine question to think about. No need to get worked up over it. I'm glad your trip works out OK and you made it to your meeting in time.
Having said that, just because it's a "dog-eat-dog" world doesn't justify that it's right. It doesn't justify the behavior or that people should forget what common courtesy is. (i.e. like in the extreme case where a child is run over by a vehicle, and people just walk right by).
Also, I didn't 'imply' that that you have anything to be ashamed or apologize for. I asked explicitly. Certainly, you have nothing ashamed nor to apologized for (since it was the driver's decision that was questionable). But, it's certainly nothing to be thrilled at or write home about because you would be miffing all the same if you were in the other shoe.
Frankly, I have been in that situation before and looked to the other passengers to see if they were OK (but mostly there was a legitimate reason - they're waiting for other parties, too many people or luggage). In case where there is blatant line skipping (to my benefit), I actually point to the passengers to ensure that the driver sees that there are others ahead of me. I'm usually in no huge hurry. If he driver insisted, would I have refused? Probably not, but more often than not, I would wonder why the cab driver does what he did. Like I said, it's nothing to write home about.
I've done enough of international traveling (even where language is a barrier) to know I'd rather wait properly in a queue, then to skip ahead of the locals even though if the service provider assume we tip well as foreigner (which we do, but it is still beside the point).
It's conceivable (even if it seems unlikely in your mind) that the two women before you could have tipped okay too. Even if they don't tip as is the local customs, that doesn't mean they should be passed over by someone who does. The cab service provided you with good service, you should tip him properly. But, skipping other people to help you long before he knew how you were going to tip is not just good service, it's profiling of some sort.
Anyway, I'll leave it as is. It's just a genuine question to think about. No need to get worked up over it. I'm glad your trip works out OK and you made it to your meeting in time.
2. True. But spend more time (living/studying/working) in an emerging market like China and you'll quickly change your tune (at least in a case like this).
3. In China you'd be waiting a long long time for that cab. People (and this happened at the Sofitel in Beijing these last two days) will just jump in front of you in line. Are you standing at the corner hailing a cab? someone will just walk right in front of you, maybe 10 feet, 10 yards etc, and start hailing and guess what, they'll get the cab (especially critical at rush hour or in the cold/wet weather). So in response you start moving forward, and they do too (remember there could be multiple people hailing at this time doing the same thing). Next thing you know, its been 20 minutes and you've walked at least 100 yards. In my case at the Sofitel, I would be in the official taxi line. Cabs upon entering sort of have to loop around a fountain/statue, so some people (guests?) would literally get to the empty cab before it looped around the statue/fountain and try to open the door/beckon the cabbie even as the doormen would be telling the cab to come around. I one instance, the aggressor got the cab, in the other instance, the cab ignored the aggressor and went to the official line.
I don't tip as a foreigner and with my skin color, I don't think I've been preferred to locals (IME). I've been passed by empty cabs for locals standing elsewhere though - but that's life.
4. Probably not.
Nov 24, 2011 | 7:12 pm
#23
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Problems are opportunistic
While I agree with you that right is right, and I will continue to do things like hold the elevator door open when someone is coming in instead of pushing the close button, get up from my seat when an old person needs a seat etc; I will also say that if you live in China or spend enough time there you will understand that common courtesy isn't as clear as day and night. In the west where there are many resources for the population (eg US), then it's easier to sit on the high horse and say things like common courtesy and wait in line.
I'm also curious about references to Chinese natives being less than friendly. The younger people in particular were so friendly and helpful that, at times, I wondered if I was being set up for a scam (tea ceremony or some such). If I looked even slightly puzzled in a subway station, someone came by and offered assistance. Returning from one trip (early morning expedition to see the flag raising ceremony) I didn't have coins, just paper currency, and the only working machine on that side of the station needed coins. A security officer kindly helped out, offering me a coin for my bill.
I think problems and unfriendly people while traveling are often opportunistic. If you expect them, they'll find you. A smile and a friendly tone, even when there are language issues, can go a long way. And stress is never, ever a good thing to display. Stress implies that you've got a tough problem that someone may not be able to help with, or for that matter won't want to deal with.
Nov 24, 2011 | 7:19 pm
#24
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Mike, individual Chinese can behave completely differently when helping you figure something out on the street, vs scrambling for a scarce commodity like an empty taxi at rush hour. Jekyll and Hyde. And this would happen regardless of your smile, your stress level or lack thereof, etc. In cases where too many people all want a restricted resource, things can get ugly and your only recourse is sometimes to jump in there and duke it out. Visitors with financial resources can hire a private driver. (though the car will get stuck in the same traffic)
Nov 24, 2011 | 7:58 pm
#25
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Mike, individual Chinese can behave completely differently when helping you figure something out on the street, vs scrambling for a scarce commodity like an empty taxi at rush hour. Jekyll and Hyde. And this would happen regardless of your smile, your stress level or lack thereof, etc. In cases where too many people all want a restricted resource, things can get ugly and your only recourse is sometimes to jump in there and duke it out. Visitors with financial resources can hire a private driver. (though the car will get stuck in the same traffic)
I don't think the Chinese have a monopoly on duking it out for scarce resources. I'd just read in so many places about people being scammed in this way or that, and in general to be suspicious of everybody, and I just didn't see that. But the elevator thing... pushing the "close door" button the second you get in, regardless of others waiting. What's with that? 
Nov 25, 2011 | 1:34 am
#26
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Nov 25, 2011 | 3:43 am
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Nov 25, 2011 | 8:28 pm
#28
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On the elevator, I know a certain 12 year old, that is truly elevator door button fast with our apt. elevator.... So, it does start at a young age.
Last edited by Jiatong; Nov 25, 2011 at 8:30 pm Reason: splg
Nov 25, 2011 | 10:44 pm
#30
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Close door buttons in China actually work. Here in US don't do much as there are set close times as prescibed by american disabilities act which essentially renders close door button useless.