Agree, $3K is reasonable. Depends on how you hotel it (what brand/stars) as well as how you get around (flights/trains etc).

Given you're open to hostels and want to fly, my advice is book airfare earlier rather than later (surf the big airlines sites at least). Hotels you can wait longer, but utilize the same sites again (elong/ctrip) and perhaps secure your cheap bookings.

As moondog says, Tibet is your wildcard. It can be expensive and since you're essentially on a "tour" to go there, that tour can be expensive. My tip is to book your own hotels/food while in Lhasa and limit your trips outside Lhasa while in Tibet (e.g. trips to Everest Base camp are expensive, but worth it at the same time).

Prices are higher, but not that much higher. You can still eat on the street cheaply (if careful).

Have fun, China is still cheap and affordable by western standards!

Prices are much higher, like 40% more than 4-5 years ago...when you factor in adjustment of the yuan and inflation.

Its cheap until you factor in the cost to get there. Then its really not
worth it.

I'm assuming the $3000 CDN does not include cost of getting to China or visas, and is for both of you. If these assumptions are correct, I'm going to disagree with above and say it is NOT enough, mostly because of Tibet.

Think very very hard about how badly you want to go there, as it will cost you dearly. Possibly now the most expensive destination in Asia except for Bhutan. First of all, it doesn't make sense to go to the trouble and expense unless you plan to stay 10 days or so, and get out beyond Lhasa. You will be required to make tour arrangements in advance, with a specific itinerary. You cannot just show up in Lhasa and then arrange tours, drivers, and guides from there--not anymore. Even if you book in China, with a Tibetan-based agency, a 10 day set-up for just the two of you is going to eat up about $1500 of that joint $3000 and that doesn't include flights or train to get there. If you hook up with 2 other people to split the cost, might bring the cost for two of you down to $1200. There's no way you can last for another 20 days on $1500 for 2 of you ($75 per day) if that amount also has to include intercity transportation within China, and entry fees to sights. Ain't possible. (If I made a bad assumption and the budget is really $3000 each, then the financials will work).

If you want to see Tibetans and Tibetan culture for a lot less money (and less Chinesified), head for the Amdo and Kham regions of Sichuan province, which are part of the Tibetan plateau but outside the Tibet Autonomous Region proper and hence are not subject to permits, required guides/tours, etc. This should be doable within your budget and can be done pretty much on the fly...and mostly with public transport though you will need time.

One more thing: if you haven't already organized air tickets to China, try not to backtrack (i.e. to Beijing). Enter in one city and move in a one-way path or loop to a different exit city. Maybe something like Shanghai & area > Beijing > Xi'an > Chengdu (for access to Tibet, or upland Sichuan) > Yunnan/Kunming > Guilin > exit city Guangzhou (or HK). Remember that it will be getting cold in north China by end of October and in mountainous areas...so maybe front-load those places and end up in the milder south.

Frankly, I think you are bordering on having too much on your plate for just one month. And research Yunnan more deeply, you might want to stay there longer, and treat Kunming as a transport nexus rather than the main Yunnan focus/destination. Perhaps favor China south and west, and consider cutting either Beijing/Xi'an OR Shanghai & surroundings.

I've heard recent chatter suggesting that Tibet is going to become easier and cheaper for foreigners to access in the near future (i.e. permits still required, but no more guide requirement). That having been said, this is a rumor that has come and gone several times over the years (much like that mythical Maglev extension to Hangzhou idea).

In any event, apart from Tibet, western China is still quite inexpensive. A friend of mine just returned from a two week trip to Yunnan (Lijiang, Dali, Shangri-La, etc.... the standard stuff). His total trip cost = y5000. When you consider the fact that it costs at least y3000 to get to Lijiang and back (by airplane, of course), that means he ended up spending less than y150 per day (shared hotel rooms with one other person), which is pretty remarkable today. Oh, and he me pictures of his hotels, decent looking places.

Tibet costs can vary widely. While those agents who cater mostly to western tourists can charge you a lot and force you into packages with 4* hotels, you may be able to find agents that mostly cater to those from mostly Taiwan. Last year, I used one of these agents, and the cost was very reasonable:

22,000RMB for a Landcruiser, driver and Tibetan guide (non-English speaking) for 15 days outside of Lhasa (including gasoline, but nothing else); and the TTB permit for one (myself). And they let us book our own hotels in Lhasa and just leave us alone. But whether they can communicate well enough in English to arrange with you is another matter.

Lodging in Lhasa is fairly cheap - our clean Tibetan-style guesthouse in the old city (run by Han Chinese, not Tibetans) charge us only 100RMB a night per double room last June. With private baths, breakfast and free wi-fi that's actually fairly fast. But outside Lhasa, hotels are pricey. "Real hotels" in cities like Shigatse or Nyingtri are 300+RMB a night (about double of what similar places in Chengdu or Xining charge); or you are left with dorm-style guesthouses, often with only shared bathes.

Train ticket cost is another huge variable. We rode the train out of Lhasa to Xining at face ticket cost, as our nice Tibetan guide sent his mom to the Lhasa station to get them for us at 10 days out. But other agents were tagging on surcharges between 100RMB and 1,000RMB a ticket; depending on date, direction of travel, and origin/destination. 1,000RMB/ticket surcharge was for Xining->Lhasa soft-sleeper during July and August, 2010.

That works out to around $225 per day (based on my quick math). While I like the fact that they throw in a car/driver (which is presumably at your beck and call 24/7, as long as you don't repeatedly bother the guy at 3a), this strikes me as a pretty high "penalty" when compared with Sichuan, Yunnan, Xinjiang, and Gansu. If the Tibet situation doesn't improve for us non-Asian folks (note, the authorities tend to not bother with people that look like Chinese and speak Chinese), I think it's wise for those of us without an EXTRA $3,000 to part with to avoid Tibet... or else simply gamble on not having papers checked (surely the bribe required to escape this predicament is well south of $3k).

shore9: It would be our pleasure to help you craft a loose (need to be somewhat flexible with stuff of this nature) itinerary that does not involve Tibet. But, like jiejie suggested, you should fix your flights to/from China first and take advantage of your open jaw rights (i.e. start/finish in different cities; this will save you time and money).

It wasn't much more than what my HK-based friends get quoted for the same trip without obtaining any TTB permit, for last year. So, while we were "forced" to use the guide because of my status, it would have cost about the same for any 4 persons to hire a car, driver and guide for the same excursion out of Lhasa.

[Of course, without me joining, they might have saved some by just arranging for a car and driver without a guide; but it's probably not the wisest way to travel by road to Ali with just a driver.]

OK, now place rkkwan's numbers in the context of shore9's hoped-for budget (I'll let somebody else do the forex conversion RMB>CDN). Again, the metrics don't work for a CDN $3000 budget that must last for a month.

The primary driver of cost for any Tibet trip, even booking locally and directly when in China and cutting out the Western tour group nonsense and retail/middleman markups, is the vehicle + driver + guide (or driver/guide). And under current circumstances and regulations--which is all we can go on--this isn't going to change. I'm not sure things will go back to the good old days of a few years ago, when independent travel was possible.

My original estimate of $1500 for 10 days for 2 is based on a composite from a number of decent (not fancy) Tibetan, Lhasa-based providers. If they want to try to team up with another couple to get the price of their share down a bit more, Chengdu is the best place to do so. Other forums such as Lonely Planet's thorntree, NE Asia branch (moondog, don't hit me! ) always have travelers looking to hook up to save cash on Tibet arrangements.

I still say: for time- and cost-effectiveness, and to see more undiluted Tibetan culture in a less regulated setting, head for western Sichuan. Moondog also mentions some other options that contain large numbers of Tibetans (parts of Gansu, Qinghai, a little bit of Yunnan).

Just want to add that I totally agree with the premise that for just a short trip to taste the Tibetan culture, go to Sichuan, Yunnan, Qinghai or Gansu. It is NOT worth the trouble and expenses unless one feels like they absolutely have to go to Lhasa, or be in Tibet. But if that's the case, go for longer.

Having been all over China and in Tibet, I would agree. If this is a first trip to China, then skip Tibet and go to Qinghai/Sichuan, scenery is just as beautiful and you skip the cost and red tape.

On my recent trip, here are some of the prices I found.

Sofitel Hainan Boao: 2580 RMB per night

Dinner in Beijing: 9000 RMB for 10 people

Health Center Message: 670 RMB for 90 min

Haikou-PEK: 4500 RMB one-way ticket in F

A 10-day trip to Hainan and Beijing, could cost as much as 70000 RMB or $10,000 in China alone.

Of course you can find expensive options in China that can be up there with Japan or Korea, but that's not the point and you are taking my statement completely out of context, if you bothered to read the thread as it developed. That is not the price range that the original poster and later contributor shore9 were describing. They were asking about budget travel possibilities. And China has plenty of those sorts of true budget options, whereas "budget" options in Korea or Japan are a lot thinner on the ground and are at a higher price level. Most parts of China have plenty of decent options for clean budget hotels/hostels in the 200-300 RMB per night (and I know plenty who find a bed for under RMB 100 per night). Decent dinners for RMB 20-30 per person. Which is generally higher than one can get away with in SE Asia such as Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, or Indonesia...assuming similar travel style. (Malaysia is more expensive and of course so is Singapore.) Budget travelers to China usually don't go travelling on First Class flights, nor get RMB 670 massages.

China prices for entry fees to sights, especially natural scenic areas, are becoming very high by any Asia-country standards on both an absolute basis, and also when adding in the peripherals that really aren't very discretionary (tram/bus ride to gate, cable car, etc.). This impacts budget travelers more than upper budget travelers, to the point where true budget travelers are now having to pick and choose carefully to stay within a tight fixed budget.

Keeping close to party cadres might have it's benefits...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/MG07Ad02.html

Calm down, Mr. Ambassador.

I was merely making a point that China could be very expensive. To say China is cheaper than SIN or S. Korea is a myth. SHA, PEK, CAN already are among the most expensive cities in the world. Travelers don't go to Yinchuan only?

In fact, with weaker dollar and higher inflation, China is getting more and more expensive. Not many people can argue with that.

jiejie = 姐姐

None of us dispute the latter (bolded) point, but BJ, SH, and GZ are still far cheaper than Seoul or Singapore.

While it's true that a cottage industry, catering to the needs of the Chinese with Ferraris at obnoxious price points, has emerged, the rest of us get along quite comfortably without breaking bank.

Furthermore, I know many people (waitresses, taxi drivers, office assistants) in BJ and SH who earn less than $300 per month, yet they're not starving to death. $300 per month would not fly in Seoul or Singapore.