jair101

Yet another itinerary thread, believe me I did my homework but I still need some advice to fine tune my plan and I will appreciate any comments. We're a group of 2 adults and one 11y old kid. The kid is pretty energetic, so I am planing days with a lot of walking and sightseeing. My plan is as follows:

1. Thursday, 23.04, night(00:05) arrive in PVG after a long long flight from AMS. No Maglev at this time and our only option is a cab.

2. Friday - a lazy day overall to relax after the late flight. Walk around the Bund and/or French Concession in the afternoon. Finding some place to enjoy the night skyline, maybe even going to the high viewing platforms if they are open during evening. Not interested in nightlife.

3. Saturday - day trip to Suzhou or Hangzhou. Haven't decided which of the two, probably Hangzhou as we like beautiful nature. I read that it is quite touristy, so if you have better suggestion for nature focused day trip out of Shanghai I am all ears.

4. Sunday - F1 Grand Prix in the afternoon. This is the main reason I picked those dates for the trip, so this is mandatory. Unfortunately it is right in the middle of the day, so it kinda ruins it for all other activities. I don't know if we will have time after it to do some of the stuff we could have missed on Friday, like the Bund, etc.

5. Monday - this is the wiggle room day before flight to Beijing. For example I might take early flight and have more time in Beijing or late one and spend some more time in Shanghai. Either way I want to fly 747(would be a first for me and probably one of the few opportunities I will have) and try the Maglev. So ideally I think a flight around 10-11am from PVG could work. How early do I need to be at the airport before departure?

6. Tuesday - Forbidden City and Tienanmen Square.

7. Wednesday - Day trip to the wall. We will hire a driver(read all disputes about the costs), either to Mutianyu or Jinshaling. Prefer to hike on the wall in peace(as few other tourists as possible) so probably the second option.

8. Thursday - Back Lakes, Summer Palace, Olympic Village maybe?

9. Friday - Some more time in Beijing. I am not quite sure what to do in terms of attractions, but most people say Beijing is worth more time then Shanghai, so there might be a reason for that. We will also meet a friend who lives there, so I am more relaxed about planing this part. In the evening - flight back to Shanghai(PVG). At 02:35 - flight back to Europe.

What would you change in this itinerary if you were me? Pretty much the only fixed thing is the F1 Grand Prix. Also we're a budget travelers, so no need for non essential luxuries.

I do have some headaches though:

Hotels:
In Beijing I think i zeroed in on the perfect offer - the Park Plaza Wangfujing through F&F for about 100 USD tax inclusive. This is the absolute maximum we can afford for hotel, but it looks like the location is perfect and the reviews are glowing so i guess its worth it. Do you have better suggestion?

Shanghai is more troublesome. I definitely want to be close to metro station, because negotiating a taxis, which aren't always available is an extra hassle. In any case I don't want to be in a place 100% dependent on taxis. So I need to have good access to the attractions, PVG airport and the train station with trains to Hangzhou(forgot which one that was) and under 100 USD per night. Easy in a huge 20+ million city, right? Which is the best quarter considering my budget and needs?

I have made a cancellable reservation for Radisson Hotel Shanghai Hong Quan, which has access to metro, but is a bit far away from the center. Holiday Inn Downtown is cheaper through F&F, but the internet is paid, which will eat in to the savings.

In general I don't mind staying in Chinese hotels, in fact I prefer it for the local experience. But none of us speak Chinese(I will have google translate equipped phone though) and I have read a lot how a hotel with english speaking staff can help you in many situations(taxis, attractions, advices, etc). Also from this link: http://www.frommers.com/destinations...330020127.html it seems I am much better with some well known western name. Can you confirm?


Flights:
I am monitoring ctrip constantly for discounts on our dates. I understand that it is no more advised to book right before the flight date, but more like 1-2 weeks ahead, is this correct?

Are the aircraft types in the schedules kept? As I said, I want to fly the 747, if possible. Also, from PVG to PEK the flights aren't as many as from SHA, but if i want to try the maglev(i am an engineer so it is kinda interesting to me) I am more or less stuck with PVG.


I feel like what I wrote is a complete mess, so if I am not making some sense please ask me to clarify.

moondog

A few brief comments:

-there aren't any 747s on the SHA-PEK schedule now and I doubt this will change before your trip, but you never know
-you can do more on your Forbidden City day
-you might want to stay over night in Hangzhou, especially if you can get a hotel on the lake
-for SH hotels, I suggest you focus on places that are near Nanjing Rd or Huaihai Rd (there are subway lines on each)
-there's no need to fear taxis

efox

I second moondog's suggestion of staying one night at Hangzhou, and live by the lake. You can watch this show at night: http://www.yinxiangxihu.net/eng/ ^

jiejie

Are you absolutely sure you have the F1 dates correct? I thought the 2011 F1 in Shanghai was April 15-18? And start of your trip, 23 April is a Saturday.

Chinatrvl

Few notes on Shanghai:
- just looked up where the Radisson in Shanghai is... in the middle of nowhere. Stay at the Holiday Inn or even better the Holiday Inn Express Zhabei (cheap, free internet), which is in 15 min walking distance to metro line 1, and 5-10 mins to lines 3 and 4 at Shanghai station. You can also get a train to Hangzhou from there.

- No need to be scared from using taxis, no need to bargain or haggle. If you have a choice, avoid the blue ones.

- Afaik, there's a heavily discounted return ticket for the Maglev (10 yuan more than a single?). So if you decide to fly SHA-PEK (instead of PVG), you could just as well go for a Maglev round trip on your first "lazy day".

Chinese hotels:
- Price difference between chinese hotels and western brand hotels should be minimal in Shanghai and Beijing
- You won't find a great "local experience", except maybe a noisy Karaoke and some "girls" knocking on your door at night at cheaper hotels - give it a miss, at least in the large cities.


Hangzhou:
- A hotel by the lake is a great idea,
- but I doubt you'll find one within your budget...

tauphi

I just checked ctrip.com and on 18/Apr there are two 747s from SHA to PEK but none from PVG.

At the moment airlines may still be affected by the massive equipment substitutions caused by the Libyan situation, but this should clear up by April.

jair101

Thanks for the suggestions, I appreciate it.

Yeah, i got the dates wrong. 23rd is actually my arrival date in Amsterdam, I arrive in Shanghai 00:05 on 15th.


I guess i should give the 747 a miss. I'll hope for it, but I won't plan for it. As soon as decent prices(around 450-500rmb) show on ctrip i guess i'll book. Round trip on the maglev is also doable, but i thought id rather use it on the way to the airport then spending 1h to get there, ride it round trip and 1h back. We'll see.

I noted the two holiday ins also. Trying to have access to line 1 or 2 is a paramount, I'll skip the radisson. Thanks for confirming about the chinese hotels, really not worth it to save 5-10 usd per day.


What I meant is that i read that sometimes its hard to find a taxi(rush hour and when its raining), that traffic jams are also a problem, language might be an issue too so i'd rather stay in a place where I have backup option. Otherwise, yeah, i will use taxis as i guess for 3 persons it will be similar costs as the metro anyway.


My main problem with overnighting in Hangzhou is the time. If I overnight on Saturday that doesn't leave much time to get back in time to Shanghai for the Grand Prix on Sunday.

What might work is going to Hangzhou on Sunday evening, after the Grand Prix, overnight there, spend the next day and fly from Hangzhou to Beijing in the afternoon/evening. I might be able to afford more expensive hotel for 1 night only if it is really worth it. Do you think that's feasible or I should stick to the day trip?

Chinatrvl

- Well, you say the F1 is in the afternoon, so there's a lot of time to get back from Hangzhou to Shanghai. But, certainly, a day trip definitely sounds more convenient, and re-reading your itinerary, I'd probably also opt for a day trip. Train to Hangzhou at 8 or 9 and back at 4 or 5 pm - enough time for West Lake and surroundings.

- Taxis, indeed when it's raining and during rush hour it might take some time to get a taxi, but nothing to worry about. You'll eventually get one. (Western) hotels are a safe place to catch one eventually.

- If you're 3 people travelling, a junior suite at the HIX Zhabei could indeed be the best option...

- Have you ever thought about not going to Beijing and spending your time around Shanghai, i.e. Nanjing, Suzhou, Wuxi, Hangzhou etc.? Lot of nature and sights around. Might be an option if you consider a visit to Beijing at another time.

jair101

I see the latest train from Hangzhou to Shanghai is at 21:51, so this still gives some time to watch "The Impression on West Lake" as it ends at 20:55 according to the website. It will be close though.

HIX Zhabei noted, but I will wait a bit with the reservation as it is fully prepaid.

Skipping Beijing is not an option. I don't know when I will get a chance to visit China again and it is even worse for my sister and my niece with whom I will be travelling. I know that taking more relaxing approach is always the better option, but we simply don't have the time. Usually I don't mind a slightly rushed itinerary.

What I can do however is maybe push Beijing to Tuesday, which will give one extra day for overnight stay in Hangzhou or day trip to Suzhou, etc. This will leave Beijing at 3.5 days only.

jiejie

Actually, I think going back to your original itinerary, I think it is OK. I would not cut Beijing at all, in fact, I'd leave Monday morning on the first flight out to maximize your time. Especially if you want to devote a full day to the Great Wall and hiking.

Sunday's F1 Race is scheduled for 15:00 and will be over by 17:00. You'll have a useful morning to do something but keep it in Shanghai and don't be carting off to other cities, since you'll need some time to get out to the track and get into the stands. If it were me, I'd try to figure out if I could get from Race Track to Hongqiao airport in time to make a 21:00+ flight to Beijing, skip the final "dead night" in Shanghai, and get going on BJ plans first thing the next day. But that might be too aggressive for you. And forget about the 747 as a priority, it's not worth forcing the rest of the itinerary just to fly on a big crowded plane.

Since you have so little time I would not complicate things and would do Hangzhou as a daytrip on the day you have it, get up and have early breakfast and then get out on a bullet train no later than 08:00, so as to maximize time in Hangzhou. If you aren't staying on the West Lake itself, then staying overnight in Hangzhou city isn't that much different of an experience to staying overnight in Shanghai city. And as somebody pointed out, the nicely-situated hotels in Hangzhou on the Lake are out of your price range. If the 21:51 train leaves from Hangzhou Main Station back to Shanghai, then you can probably make it by taxi from lake show to station to catch the train, but the tricky part will be getting an empty taxi.

I think you just have too little time to do everything you want to do. I'd put Suzhou on lower priority.

mnredfox

+1. In PVG and PEK you should not have any problems with cabs and should not negotiate. If you feel that they are, just get out and wait for the next one. In Shanghai, I agree, avoid dark blue. Think girly colors - baby blue, yellow, or the Expo taxis are all good (expo taxis were given to all the big companies and now are split).

China hotels, find a western one in PVG/PEK like Holiday Inn Express. All speak English, prices should be reasonable (less than $100 for sure) and includes breakfast.

You don't need to know Chinese too much, but knowing some will be helpful.

Ginat102

Hi,
I've been to Beijing 4 times now on business trips and have had the luxury of doing a lot of exploring in Bejing.

I would agree that you can do more than Forbidden City and the square in one day. The square is large, but not much to see unless you want to see Chairman Mao "lying in state". Now sure how you feel about that with an 11 year old, but I found it a bit awesome to be viewing the Chairman.

I would highly suggest on of the Parks behind the Forbidden City, Beihai Park is one options, and there is another Jingshan Park which has great views of the FC. Both are very close to each other... believe you can walk between both. The mid summit of Jingshan is the highest point in Beijing. Looking from the peak, the visitor is able to get a full and clear view of the Forbidden City. That would be a full day.

Ginat102

The Summer Palace is a good choice, but I would add to that Yonghe Lamasery, which is sometimes called the Lama Temple which is the largest and most perfectly preserved lamasery in present day China. Wanfuge (Pavilion of Ten Thousand Happinesses) is the last formal palace to be visited in this complex. This is the highest palace because it is three stories high. Inside this pavilion there are tens of thousands of Buddhas displayed along every level, and in the centre there is an enormous statue of Maitreya positioned on a white marble base. This last Buddha is in the Guiness book of records. It was also very interesting to me as there were many local people who were worshipping at the Temple while we were there.

Ginat102

You might want to consider a trip to he Military Museum. This is not on many of the suggested lists.... but my friends and I found it really interesting... missles, torpedos, planes, tanks,... lots of items I never had the chance to see so "up close and personal".

Lastly, if you can fit in a tour of the Houtong area - that was quite interesting as well.

moondog

+1. Beihai Park is one of my favorite tourist attractions in town, second only to the Summer Palace.

While it's possible to both Beihai and Jingshan in the same day, there is no easy way to do it without backtracking. Beihai also has good views of the Forbidden City, just a more angular (because it is off to the northwest as opposed to Jingshan, which is due north). In short if you need to chose, Beihai is a no brainer.

Also, I vaguely recall hearing that Mao's body is no longer his actual body.