Using Credit Cards in China - The Great CC Rip Off (dynamic currency conversion)
Jan 23, 2011, 1:03 am
#166
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,048
Sorry; I guess jet lag might have caused me to post errantly. I meant to say that the charge went through in USD at the inflated exchange rate.... around $50 more expensive than if it had been processed correctly.
Jan 23, 2011, 1:59 am
#167
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: BA Gold, JGC Sapphire, OZ Diamond, AF Silver, CX GR, Marriott Lifetime SL
Posts: 3,598
for any hotel spending I decided to give up and stick with AMEX....
Jan 23, 2011, 2:46 am
#168
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,804
Cathay thread FTer (ChrisLi) stayed in Marriott Puxi and was given a bespoke A4 credit card slip.
What was your Marriott Beijing slip like? A slip like my BoC slip without a choice or a slip with a choice already made for you like jamar's?
Jan 23, 2011, 6:35 am
#169
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,048
Jan 29, 2011, 11:36 am
#170
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,423
Ran into my first DCC issue at a restaurant in PVG, of course it was an expat place too and the owner swore that his machine does this with all visa's for foreigners. Machine was HSBC and it gave me the circle option.
I simply told him to cancel and rather than arguing about how to use his machine, just paid with my UnionPay ICBC card.
It's alive and scamming foreigners in PVG!
I simply told him to cancel and rather than arguing about how to use his machine, just paid with my UnionPay ICBC card.
It's alive and scamming foreigners in PVG!
Jan 29, 2011, 11:30 pm
#171
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,804
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11))
Just reading up for my upcoming SGN trip (last visit to VN made me think Vietnam is China 5 years ago).
VN has some Visa not AE places, but looks relatively DCC-safe.
But came back to a thread on Fodors on China http://www.fodors.com/community/asia/dynamic-currency-conversion-in-china.cfm - same problems reported.
OP in that thread (111op) claimed he's been hit with DCC in hotel, Ding Tai Fung and Lei Garden in China. I believe he got hit with it in BJ, he said he's been to BJ and HZ but only BJ has both restaurants.
DTF and hotel are BoC merchants and didn't offer a choice.
Lei Gardens is HSBC China merchant and their slips sound like Secrep Recipe's. op111 ticked RMB but was charged in USD anyway.
111op's card issuer bank offered to credit him US$25 for closing the matters without investigation (op111 refused it but did not update what the conclusion of his issuer's investigation is).
Confirms jamar's assetion that no matter how you tick for HSBC China, you get CDCCed anyway.
Just reading up for my upcoming SGN trip (last visit to VN made me think Vietnam is China 5 years ago).
VN has some Visa not AE places, but looks relatively DCC-safe.
But came back to a thread on Fodors on China http://www.fodors.com/community/asia/dynamic-currency-conversion-in-china.cfm - same problems reported.
OP in that thread (111op) claimed he's been hit with DCC in hotel, Ding Tai Fung and Lei Garden in China. I believe he got hit with it in BJ, he said he's been to BJ and HZ but only BJ has both restaurants.
DTF and hotel are BoC merchants and didn't offer a choice.
Lei Gardens is HSBC China merchant and their slips sound like Secrep Recipe's. op111 ticked RMB but was charged in USD anyway.
111op's card issuer bank offered to credit him US$25 for closing the matters without investigation (op111 refused it but did not update what the conclusion of his issuer's investigation is).
Confirms jamar's assetion that no matter how you tick for HSBC China, you get CDCCed anyway.
Jan 30, 2011, 1:10 am
#172
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,804
Have read the following survey for DCC:
http://www.pseconsulting.com/pdf/art...ity.pdf#page=4
"Training can be a particular issue where there is high employee turnover, given the offer needs to be explained in cardholder’s language, and the need to accurately select cardholder’s currency. Acquiring bank’s limited ability to deliver this training was identified by some of the large hotel chains PSE interviewed - “very little information and training was provided by the bank and from the technical personnel who installed the terminals. The installation personnel just arrived and installed the terminal without providing any additional information to the hotel’s personnel.”"
This survey was written in UK on merchants in UK and Spain. I can imagine the Chinese version:
"No information or training was provided by the bank who installed the terminal. The installation personnel just arrived and installed the terminal without telling us why they did it."
http://www.pseconsulting.com/pdf/art...ity.pdf#page=4
"Training can be a particular issue where there is high employee turnover, given the offer needs to be explained in cardholder’s language, and the need to accurately select cardholder’s currency. Acquiring bank’s limited ability to deliver this training was identified by some of the large hotel chains PSE interviewed - “very little information and training was provided by the bank and from the technical personnel who installed the terminals. The installation personnel just arrived and installed the terminal without providing any additional information to the hotel’s personnel.”"
This survey was written in UK on merchants in UK and Spain. I can imagine the Chinese version:
"No information or training was provided by the bank who installed the terminal. The installation personnel just arrived and installed the terminal without telling us why they did it."
Jan 30, 2011, 1:42 am
#173
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 51
Never Mind China
As a tourist from Canada, this has happened to me in Everett Washington and in Leavenworth Washington. In Leavenworth Washington, the proprietor of The Little Shop refused to refund my purchase. Wont be back in that town anytime soon.
This has also happened to me at the Westin Excelsior Lido Venice. It took some time but the hotel did correct this.
This has also happened to me at the Westin Excelsior Lido Venice. It took some time but the hotel did correct this.
Jan 30, 2011, 1:57 am
#174
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,804
As a tourist from Canada, this has happened to me in Everett Washington and in Leavenworth Washington. In Leavenworth Washington, the proprietor of The Little Shop refused to refund my purchase. Wont be back in that town anytime soon.
This has also happened to me at the Westin Excelsior Lido Venice. It took some time but the hotel did correct this.
This has also happened to me at the Westin Excelsior Lido Venice. It took some time but the hotel did correct this.
Jan 30, 2011, 10:23 am
#175
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,423
If anyone gets instructions on how to get the shopowners to work the HSBC machines please post. I'll post the BOC instructions as soon as I get my cheat sheet translated.
Jan 30, 2011, 10:37 am
#176
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,804
Also: To be more clear, this is what happened:
1. Waitress came over and took my card.
2. Ran it through the machine. I was still sitting at my table near the cash register/card machine.
3. Waitress comes back with DCC slip. I start to complain.
4. I look over and something's being torn off the card machine printer.
5. I go over to the cash register and ask them to reverse the transaction.
6. I notice that the machine is on the "please swipe card" screen. Pushing the "clear" button brings up a "DCC function" menu with, among other things (like the reversal function), a prominent "OPTOUT" option which requires an authorization code which nobody at the restaurant has (at first I assumed this was necessary pre-transaction to, well, opt out of DCC).
7. At this point I start to panic and check my mobile banking to be sure. It posted as DCC.
8. They start calling HSBC to ask about reversing the transaction. Mr. Impatient Hongkie shoos my sister and me away and says he'll deal with it.
9. Transaction is reversed, void slip printed. He pays in cash instead. (Originally I was going to swipe and he'd hand me the cash- quick 'n dirty way to get around times when SAFE is being stupid)
10. I get void slip.
11. On the way out he berates me for wanting to fight for "so little money. That's not being financially astute, that's just being selfish. Don't waste time on little things like this next time".
1. Waitress came over and took my card.
2. Ran it through the machine. I was still sitting at my table near the cash register/card machine.
3. Waitress comes back with DCC slip. I start to complain.
4. I look over and something's being torn off the card machine printer.
5. I go over to the cash register and ask them to reverse the transaction.
6. I notice that the machine is on the "please swipe card" screen. Pushing the "clear" button brings up a "DCC function" menu with, among other things (like the reversal function), a prominent "OPTOUT" option which requires an authorization code which nobody at the restaurant has (at first I assumed this was necessary pre-transaction to, well, opt out of DCC).
7. At this point I start to panic and check my mobile banking to be sure. It posted as DCC.
8. They start calling HSBC to ask about reversing the transaction. Mr. Impatient Hongkie shoos my sister and me away and says he'll deal with it.
9. Transaction is reversed, void slip printed. He pays in cash instead. (Originally I was going to swipe and he'd hand me the cash- quick 'n dirty way to get around times when SAFE is being stupid)
10. I get void slip.
11. On the way out he berates me for wanting to fight for "so little money. That's not being financially astute, that's just being selfish. Don't waste time on little things like this next time".
In my case with the HSBC machine there was an OPTOUT option uncovered by pressing the "Clear" key pre-transaction, and I wonder if that's what its purpose is for. But it's locked out and requires an "administrator passcode". When I pointed it out I was told that no one working there knew the code. And afterwards, I still don't know if they got the passcode after calling HSBC, and if they did, if they activated the OPTOUT (since I wasn't there in the final stages of handling that little issue, as I said in the China forum, I have no clue).
Jan 30, 2011, 11:41 am
#177
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 51
Not Just in China
Percy post 62...clearly you missed the point.
Jan 30, 2011, 12:15 pm
#178
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,804
Well fine, it happens everywhere. Even in the US of A itself. Don't travel with Visa and pay cash if AE not accepted.
DCC is supposed to be a choice, but we can't enforce those rules. If you think the merchant's unco-operative then CB him.
I don't think you can even sue the acquirer even if you would like to and know who it is. It's not like Visa's going to stick a US$119 million fine to the Washington acquirer. So don't deal with Visa.
DCC is supposed to be a choice, but we can't enforce those rules. If you think the merchant's unco-operative then CB him.
I don't think you can even sue the acquirer even if you would like to and know who it is. It's not like Visa's going to stick a US$119 million fine to the Washington acquirer. So don't deal with Visa.
Jan 30, 2011, 11:40 pm
#179
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,048
Feb 17, 2011, 4:16 am
#180
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,653
Can we sign 'Decline' and dispute it to our credit card companies in a month.
Hopefully we will not be blacklisted.
Hopefully we will not be blacklisted.