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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Behavior Detection: Article (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/975858-behavior-detection-article.html)

BubbaLoop Jul 16, 2009 3:52 pm


Originally Posted by Mats (Post 12077479)
What strikes me the most is the absence of data and research. Has anyone TESTED these behavioral analysis techniques? Is there data? If so, where is it? (Let me guess, it's secret.)

Actually, the National Research Council published a document a few months ago saying there is no scientific data on these techniques, and that they should not be adopted.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/10/07...ior/index.html

goalie Jul 16, 2009 4:29 pm


Originally Posted by Wally Bird (Post 12077670)
goalie, ya gotta learn TSAspeak.

They were "suspected terrorists" or in English, suspected of being terrorists. Turns out they weren't, but TSA feels it can still claim some kind of victory.
Twisted minds twist words.

emphasis mine: oh, you are soooooooooo right ;)

Wally Bird Jul 16, 2009 4:50 pm


Originally Posted by BubbaLoop (Post 12077946)
Actually, the National Research Council published a document a few months ago saying there is no scientific data on these techniques, and that they should not be adopted.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/10/07...ior/index.html

These techniques are largely the work of one man, Paul Ekman. The same Paul Ekman whose methodology the TSA adopted, presumably at some financial gain for Mr. Ekman.

A few minutes of googling will yield numerous counterpoints and downright dismissal. This is not a proven, tried and true scientific discipline despite what some would believe. Are some people better at it than others ? Yes, intuitively. Can others be taught it effectively ? Not in my opinion; certainly not in a few days.


Affective researchers have also proposed that each basic emotion is associated with a characteristic facial expression. If this were true, facial expressions would then provide overt criteria for classifying the basic emotions because the basic emotions could be defined simply by the presence of a characteristic facial expression. This proposal, however, has been largely discredited. As Ekman notes, not all emotions are accompanied by a characteristic facial expression (Ekman, 1993). Moreover, certain facial expressions are associated with more than one emotion (e.g., a smile, is associated variously with happiness, pride, and condescending sarcasm). This poor specificity in the emotional correlates of facial expressions suggests that the taxonomy of facial expressions, as described by Ekman and Izard, does not describe adequately the taxonomy of emotions. Facial expressions may sometimes communicate information about, among other things, an individual's affective state, but they do not delineate it (Camras, 1992; Fernandez–Dols & Ruiz–Belda, 1997).
(from http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=2367156

See also: http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/2007/0...ogy_of_be.html

Google further at your own inclination. Or not.

doober Jul 16, 2009 5:07 pm

Another reason to not speak to anybody playing SPOT
 
From an interview witharticle about Ekman:


Emotion usually leads to an expression, but studies have shown that the process can also work in reverse: If you force your face to look sad or angry, the rest of your body will react as well, and you may involuntarily begin to feel those emotions. A look of anger will make your heart speed up and your blood vessels dilate until your skin turns red; a look of fear can make your hands cold and clammy and your hairs stand on end; a look of disgust can make you nauseated.

These internal responses may last a full minute or more—far longer than the expressions themselves, which last no more than two or three seconds. When people try to hide their emotions, their expressions may flash for one-fifteenth to one-twentieth of a second—just long enough for others to see them. After that, people can wipe away their “microexpressions,” as Ekman describes them. It is much harder to remove all traces of feeling from the voice. That’s why Ekman tells police to keep their suspects talking.
Ekman also says that humans share 5 of the 7 facial expressions with other primates. A research paper I found Paperstates:


Thus, chimpanzees, like humans and some other non-human primates, show a right hemisphere specialization for facial expression of emotions, which suggests that this functional asymmetry is homologous in all these species.
Further, if Ekman and his daughter can learn to "manufacture" facial expressions, would not a determined trained terrorist be able to do so also and thus defeat any "trained" BDO?


ABOUT FACE: Eve Ekman, the daughter of psychologist Paul Ekman, is an accomplished facial mimic like her father. Here she demonstrates the seven major categories of facial expressions. Top row, from left to right: Fear, anger, happiness, contempt. Bottom row: surprise, disgust, and sadness. True anger is difficult to fake because most people cannot narrow the outer margins of their lips properly. True fear is hard because the eyebrows must be raised and drawn together simultaneously.
Facial expressions

n4zhg Jul 16, 2009 5:16 pm


Originally Posted by MikeMpls (Post 12077634)
The one I ran into at STL was in my face & all but trying to pick a fight with me. That's not behavioral detection, that's provocation.

At which point there should have been a complaint filed with the FSD.

doober Jul 16, 2009 5:18 pm


Originally Posted by JSmith1969 (Post 12077500)

Of course, one also has to wonder why Ronny is posting a two-and-a-half year article that predates USAToday's reporting about the utter failure of the BDO nonsense to catch anyone or anything who presents a threat to aviation.

Ronnie keeps grasping for any straw that he can find to try to prove what he believes to be true. He's got a Don Quixote complex. However, the good Don finally saw the truth - unfortunately, I don't think Ronnie ever will.

n4zhg Jul 16, 2009 5:26 pm


Originally Posted by IslandBased (Post 12077698)
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." Mark Twain

Mark Twain never had to deal with TSA. ;)

IslandBased Jul 16, 2009 5:37 pm


Originally Posted by n4zhg (Post 12078385)
Mark Twain never had to deal with TSA. ;)

In the 19th century travel really was risky. I deleted the last part of my tag line which was "TSA doesn't get out much".

RadioGirl Jul 16, 2009 7:27 pm


Originally Posted by Wally Bird (Post 12077670)
goalie, ya gotta learn TSAspeak.

They were "suspected terrorists" or in English, suspected of being terrorists.

Or to put it another way, "passengers." :(

the_happiness_store Jul 16, 2009 7:46 pm

The junior senator from Wisconsin would be very, very happy today. (were he still alive)

halls120 Jul 16, 2009 7:56 pm


Originally Posted by rhino_uk (Post 12077359)
Not exactly an independent opinion

and one that was published almost 3 years ago.

rustyhaight Jul 16, 2009 8:18 pm


Originally Posted by doober (Post 12078310)
From an interview witharticle about Ekman: (snip)
Facial expressions (article)

Where it goes on about Ekman's daughter making being a great facial mimic, could it be because she's not had... botox?!?! and I think this might be in Ekman's most recent published work!

gj83 Jul 16, 2009 9:26 pm


Someday, remote surveillance devices may identify anyone whose blood pressure and heart rate are much higher than those of the previous two dozen people.
Sweet! As a value added service they are going to let me know if I have uncontrolled high blood pressure or an arrhythmia!

Wait...they can't do what they're supposed to yet.

Mats Jul 16, 2009 9:41 pm

So they can do a psychiatric assessment, check your rate and blood pressure, then do a full body x-ray. I think that Blue Cross should require a prior authorization before going through the checkpoint.

Maybe we could bring the TSA down with malpractice insurance. We'll hold the TSA liable if someone is in emotional distress, in atrial flutter, and has a tumor evident on the full body x-ray. Snap.

coachrowsey Jul 16, 2009 10:44 pm

Regardless of opinion on this article, I can tell you the Spots in my airport are a total waste & joke. I observe them when I'm on break & I can tell you they are not paying attention. All they are doing is talking with each other & wasting our money:td:


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