Community
Wiki Posts
Search

"Uncomfortable" experience at MSP

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old May 12, 2009 | 1:56 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Programs: DL Diamond
Posts: 54
"Uncomfortable" experience at MSP

Been travelling YWG-MSP-AMS-JNB on return trips for the past 11 years. About 2 - 3 times every year. Came back on JNB-AMS-MSP-YWG on 19 April 2009.

Then when I realized I had Mothers Day week-end free and had a shot at getting Tripple EQM bonus on Worldperks, I decided to get a B fare ticket and leave YWG on Friday 8 May, arrrive JNB on Saturday 9 May, visit my mother for less than 24 hours and return on Sunday 10 May via JNB-AMS-MSP-YWG to arrive MSP on 11 May.

I did not check any luggage just in case I had to change flights at short notice. Am Worldperks Elite (in various tiers) for past 11 years. Canadian Citizen. Only "trouble" I have had before on entering MSP from AMS, was 4 years ago when an agent at passport control asked me what my profession was and when I answered that I am in the medical field, she said " well, you sure travell a lotfor a doctor!". She was not friendly at all and I thought that she was doubting my answer.

Arrived in MSP yesteday on NW 55 in WBC. Was third in line for passport control in the US Citizen line. Agent aksed usual questions and I told him I went through MSP 3 days ago on the way to Africa to see my mom for a few hours and now I am back. Something must have come up on his screen because he suddenly stopped talking and waved to another agent at the back of the passport cubicles. The other agent came over and scrolled through the computer screen. He asked me how long I was gone and what for. Gave the same answer about going to visit for mothers day. He took my passport and entry form and told me to go with him. We walked towards the rear of the arrival hall where they usually open the bags they want to check out. On the way there, near the end of the carrousel closest to the windows, he tells me "wait here" and runs towards the windows, unlocks a door leading to the corridor that leads to the plane, and disappears out of sight with my passport and entry form.

I stood there waiting for more than 10 minutes before he came back and took me to one of the tables where he opened my laptop bag and carry on. He went through each and every compartment, all my papers, opened the news paper I brought from home, my shaving kit bag, asked me to empty my pockets of my pants and jacket. He asked me what I do and I told him. Then his phone rang. "What up boss?" he said. I could not hear the answer but then the agent said "Watch out for that white haired pilot who argued with me when I told him he cannot go back to the plane" and he hung up. (that was the captain of my AMS-MSP flight). He proceeded to examine my stuff a while longer. Told me to close everything up, typed something on his computer and wrote something illegible on my blue entry form and told me I can leave.

I was trying to write down his name and badge number when he ran away to unlock and enter the corridor. After that, I was so upset at his attitude, while trying to byte my lip and not make things worse, that I forgot to finish taking his details.

I had absolutely no problem when I entered Canada last night and told the same "mothers day" story to the border agent. That I had no luggage did not concern them either.

1. Was my lack of checked luggage that caught their attention?
2. Or was it because I came from JNB only 3 weeks ago and now went back there just for a day visit?
3. Should my family expect the same treatment this coming week-end when they fly YWG-MSP-DTW-AMS-DTW-MSP-YWG on a mile run? They will only be in AMS for about 2 hours before their return flight departs.
4. Am I overly sensitive about being searched and questioned this way? It's the first time ever this has happened to me and I do travel quite a bit - 75 - 100k per year for the past 12 years. I have entered the USA by air 4 times this year before this trip.
5. or was it because I came from South Africa?

I feel I want to dump NW/Delta route to JNB because of my experience in MSP and just do Air Canada via YYZ/LHR/JNB.
jaws3 is offline  
Old May 12, 2009 | 4:52 pm
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
USCIS flip out at short stays, I don't know but they do. I feel bad it has happened to me. You can FOIA the interview notes if you want them.
colpuck is offline  
Old May 12, 2009 | 7:50 pm
  #3  
Original Poster
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Programs: DL Diamond
Posts: 54
Thanks for the reply COLPUCK. I am Googling the FOIA now and am seriously considering spending a substantial dollar amount on this issue. I note that there are certain fees to be paid with a request for information on FOIA.
jaws3 is offline  
Old May 12, 2009 | 7:55 pm
  #4  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
60 Nights
50 Countries Visited
3M
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott, IHG, Hyatt something
Posts: 34,511
Originally Posted by jaws3
Thanks for the reply COLPUCK. I am Googling the FOIA now and am seriously considering spending a substantial dollar amount on this issue. I note that there are certain fees to be paid with a request for information on FOIA.
Don't waste your time. Many, many, many countries are wary of folk who go long distances and return quickly. I guess they're figuring drug smuggling, money laundering, diamond smuggling or such.

I've had it happen to me at LGW when I was going on my first intl MR. I've had them paw through all my luggage a few times, and ask lots of questions about a South Africa stamp from a couple years before in my passport. It's all part of the fun of international flying.

Trust me, if you didn't get a strip search, then you didn't get the full treatment.
Jaimito Cartero is offline  
Old May 12, 2009 | 8:49 pm
  #5  
Original Poster
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Programs: DL Diamond
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by Jaimito Cartero
Don't waste your time. Many, many, many countries are wary of folk who go long distances and return quickly. I guess they're figuring drug smuggling, money laundering, diamond smuggling or such.

I've had it happen to me at LGW when I was going on my first intl MR. I've had them paw through all my luggage a few times, and ask lots of questions about a South Africa stamp from a couple years before in my passport. It's all part of the fun of international flying.

Trust me, if you didn't get a strip search, then you didn't get the full treatment.
Yes it might be part of international travel, but it aint fun at my age! (52)
But thanks for your input. I'll sleep on it before I decide to push the issue.
jaws3 is offline  
Old May 13, 2009 | 5:57 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: LAX
Posts: 453
Originally Posted by jaws3
Been travelling YWG-MSP-AMS-JNB on return trips for the past 11 years. About 2 - 3 times every year. Came back on JNB-AMS-MSP-YWG on 19 April 2009.

Then when I realized I had Mothers Day week-end free and had a shot at getting Tripple EQM bonus on Worldperks, I decided to get a B fare ticket and leave YWG on Friday 8 May, arrrive JNB on Saturday 9 May, visit my mother for less than 24 hours and return on Sunday 10 May via JNB-AMS-MSP-YWG to arrive MSP on 11 May.

I did not check any luggage just in case I had to change flights at short notice. Am Worldperks Elite (in various tiers) for past 11 years. Canadian Citizen. Only "trouble" I have had before on entering MSP from AMS, was 4 years ago when an agent at passport control asked me what my profession was and when I answered that I am in the medical field, she said " well, you sure travell a lotfor a doctor!". She was not friendly at all and I thought that she was doubting my answer.

Arrived in MSP yesteday on NW 55 in WBC. Was third in line for passport control in the US Citizen line. Agent aksed usual questions and I told him I went through MSP 3 days ago on the way to Africa to see my mom for a few hours and now I am back. Something must have come up on his screen because he suddenly stopped talking and waved to another agent at the back of the passport cubicles. The other agent came over and scrolled through the computer screen. He asked me how long I was gone and what for. Gave the same answer about going to visit for mothers day. He took my passport and entry form and told me to go with him. We walked towards the rear of the arrival hall where they usually open the bags they want to check out. On the way there, near the end of the carrousel closest to the windows, he tells me "wait here" and runs towards the windows, unlocks a door leading to the corridor that leads to the plane, and disappears out of sight with my passport and entry form.

I stood there waiting for more than 10 minutes before he came back and took me to one of the tables where he opened my laptop bag and carry on. He went through each and every compartment, all my papers, opened the news paper I brought from home, my shaving kit bag, asked me to empty my pockets of my pants and jacket. He asked me what I do and I told him. Then his phone rang. "What up boss?" he said. I could not hear the answer but then the agent said "Watch out for that white haired pilot who argued with me when I told him he cannot go back to the plane" and he hung up. (that was the captain of my AMS-MSP flight). He proceeded to examine my stuff a while longer. Told me to close everything up, typed something on his computer and wrote something illegible on my blue entry form and told me I can leave.

I was trying to write down his name and badge number when he ran away to unlock and enter the corridor. After that, I was so upset at his attitude, while trying to byte my lip and not make things worse, that I forgot to finish taking his details.

I had absolutely no problem when I entered Canada last night and told the same "mothers day" story to the border agent. That I had no luggage did not concern them either.

1. Was my lack of checked luggage that caught their attention?
2. Or was it because I came from JNB only 3 weeks ago and now went back there just for a day visit?
3. Should my family expect the same treatment this coming week-end when they fly YWG-MSP-DTW-AMS-DTW-MSP-YWG on a mile run? They will only be in AMS for about 2 hours before their return flight departs.
4. Am I overly sensitive about being searched and questioned this way? It's the first time ever this has happened to me and I do travel quite a bit - 75 - 100k per year for the past 12 years. I have entered the USA by air 4 times this year before this trip.
5. or was it because I came from South Africa?

I feel I want to dump NW/Delta route to JNB because of my experience in MSP and just do Air Canada via YYZ/LHR/JNB.
You don't explain why you were upset about his attitude. You've provided a bunch of facts but nothing about the officer's attitude.

Or was it just uncomfortable because you were selected for a search?
Taker Park is offline  
Old May 13, 2009 | 11:13 am
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
All eyes on you!
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still PAL Premier Elite & Hilton Diamond
Posts: 25,429
Really depends on the port of entry & the prevailing 'tudes there. DTW is the worst, never hassled for short stays returning thru ATL, "worst" that's happened at EWR is that they X-Rayed our baggage (no extra questions, probably < 60 seconds added inconvience).

My perspective may be a little different from yours since they have to let me back into my own country. During one idiotic secondary at DTW I just got fed up with the repeated questions and replied something to the effect of "I already answered that, just inspect the luggage & get it over with". He elected to end the secondary at that point.

They are supposed to provide you with feedback cards for such secondaries.
MikeMpls is offline  
Old May 13, 2009 | 11:57 am
  #8  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
Originally Posted by Jaimito Cartero
Don't waste your time. Many, many, many countries are wary of folk who go long distances and return quickly. I guess they're figuring drug smuggling, money laundering, diamond smuggling or such.

I've had it happen to me at LGW when I was going on my first intl MR. I've had them paw through all my luggage a few times, and ask lots of questions about a South Africa stamp from a couple years before in my passport. It's all part of the fun of international flying.

Trust me, if you didn't get a strip search, then you didn't get the full treatment.
Even a strip search is not the most extreme full treatment -- rather than just a strip search it may also include bowel movements, body scans and/or orifice checks.
GUWonder is offline  
Old May 13, 2009 | 12:10 pm
  #9  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,684
Originally Posted by MikeMpls
Really depends on the port of entry & the prevailing 'tudes there.
Agreed. I just got back from a mileage run to DEL. The customs officer at ORD asked me why I had no luggage. I explained that I was doing it for the frequent flyer miles and he laughed and sent me on my way.

Mike
mikeef is offline  
Old May 13, 2009 | 12:31 pm
  #10  
Original Poster
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Programs: DL Diamond
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by Taker Park
You don't explain why you were upset about his attitude. You've provided a bunch of facts but nothing about the officer's attitude.

Or was it just uncomfortable because you were selected for a search?
Many people do not like change. I am one. My previous entries at MSP (35 -40 over the last decade) were always of a similar experience - questions were asked, answers given, luggage collected, TSA screening done and that's the end of it. Not even on the occasion when I left MSP 3 days before 9/11 and returned from SA 2 weeks later, did the experience at MSP change. So firstly, I was caught off-guard by the "change" in attitude towards me.

Secondly, I felt very uncomfortable standing next to the luggage belt for more than 10 minutes without my passport. The agent literally just ran away with my identification document without any explanation and disappeared down a corridor. I was not left at his station or at a desk where they examine luggage. And no explanation or apology when he came back.

Thirdly, when he came back, he was rude. He told me to "go to that table". I did.
His reply "No, other side". I was never asked in a courteous way. I was ordered abruptly. Every question he asked was answered truthfully yet it seemed he was not satisfied because the same question was worded just a little differently and then asked again. Resulting in exactly the same answer that I had given before. It seemed he wanted me to give a different answer to the same question. After about 10 minutes of going through my carry-on, he said "Close it". Not "you may close up now" or "I am done, you may close your bag" or some other civilized response. There is a difference in being ordered to do something as opposed to being given permission or requested to do something. If you look at my original post, paragraph 4, you will see I used the word "told" as well. I did not write "he asked me to go with him".

Now I fully understand that he has the right to question and examine, but can that not be done in a more civilized way?. Read the placard in the entry hall where they spell out their promise to travelers. I do not think he lived up to it as he was rude, had an aggressive attitude and acted more like an army sergeant in the military barracks by issuing orders rather than communicating with the traveler. I do not expect him to be sweet as honey and I appreciate his job is not a walk in the park either, but I do not believe I did anything to arouse suspicion. But obviously I did and I don't know what it was. And that is upsetting as well. If I am selected for a random secondary check, I expect it to be courteous.

In my 4th question you can see that I am asking opinions about whether I am too sensitive. Should I just "suck it up" ? Is this fairly common to be "ordered" to have a secondary search, to be left alone nowhere specific, without your travel documents for 10 minutes without any explanation, and then be cross-examined in a rude way?

Perhaps we were just two bulls who's body language and personal space clashed . However, I am not a big man, over 50 yrs and speak slowly and clearly. He on the other hand, produces a very large shadow, has body art running up the back of both arms from the elbows to under the uniform sleeve, looked around 30yrs old and barks orders as a form of communication.

BTW, I never questioned him about anything that he asked or did.
jaws3 is offline  
Old May 13, 2009 | 12:33 pm
  #11  
Original Poster
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Programs: DL Diamond
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by MikeMpls
Really depends on the port of entry & the prevailing 'tudes there. DTW is the worst, never hassled for short stays returning thru ATL, "worst" that's happened at EWR is that they X-Rayed our baggage (no extra questions, probably < 60 seconds added inconvience).

My perspective may be a little different from yours since they have to let me back into my own country. During one idiotic secondary at DTW I just got fed up with the repeated questions and replied something to the effect of "I already answered that, just inspect the luggage & get it over with". He elected to end the secondary at that point.

They are supposed to provide you with feedback cards for such secondaries.
He never offered/gave me a feedback card. Can I get one "after the fact"?
jaws3 is offline  
Old May 13, 2009 | 1:45 pm
  #12  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
20 Countries Visited
1M
40 Nights
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Marriott or Hilton hot tub with a big drink <glub> Beverage: To-Go Bag DYKWIA:SSSS /rolleyes ☈ Date Night:Costco
Programs: Sea Shell Lounge Platinum, TSA Pre✓ Refusnik Diamond, PWP Gold, FT subset of the subset
Posts: 12,523
Originally Posted by jaws3
<SNIP> Perhaps we were just two bulls who's body language and personal space clashed . However, I am not a big man, over 50 yrs and speak slowly and clearly. He on the other hand, produces a very large shadow, has body art running up the back of both arms from the elbows to under the uniform sleeve, looked around 30yrs old and barks orders as a form of communication.
Just another example of why my family and friends in Europe no longer spend their holiday money in the U.S. Plenty of other countries understand that their own version of TSA/CBP can operate effectively sans tattooed thugs barking orders.
N965VJ is offline  
Old May 13, 2009 | 2:22 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NorCal
Posts: 658
Originally Posted by jaws3
1. Was my lack of checked luggage that caught their attention?
2. Or was it because I came from JNB only 3 weeks ago and now went back there just for a day visit?
3. Should my family expect the same treatment this coming week-end when they fly YWG-MSP-DTW-AMS-DTW-MSP-YWG on a mile run? They will only be in AMS for about 2 hours before their return flight departs.
4. Am I overly sensitive about being searched and questioned this way? It's the first time ever this has happened to me and I do travel quite a bit - 75 - 100k per year for the past 12 years. I have entered the USA by air 4 times this year before this trip.
5. or was it because I came from South Africa?
Ignoring the rudeness of the agent and all the other stuff and purely answering this list of questions, I'd answer yes to all of these.

I'm not excusing a bad attitude (I'm thinking mainly about #4), but it's pretty common knowledge that airport security/immigration has lots of employees who could use more training/empathy.

All the possible red flags jaimeto mentioned flashed through my mind when I read your post. Considering they ultimately let you go after the search and interview, it sounds like that's what they thought too but ultimately felt you were clean. Could they have been nicer about it? Sure, but the attitude might also have been an act to gauge your reaction and see if it provokes some kind of response that indicates if you're hiding something. It could just have been a bad attitude too. Who knows, but I've had cops tell me they act gruff and as intimidating as possible to try and see what reactions they get. Still, I'm not sure, based on what you posted, that the guy was anything but just a different manner of speech than you. Remember, their primary job is not to retain you as a customer.

Considering the litany of horrendous examples out there, both your responses sound like you're blowing this way out of proportion. Just my two cents.
codex57 is offline  
Old May 13, 2009 | 2:56 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Louisville, KY, US
Programs: QF Plat - OW EMD | DL Gold / Starwood Gold
Posts: 6,106
Originally Posted by jaws3
I had absolutely no problem when I entered Canada last night and told the same "mothers day" story to the border agent. That I had no luggage did not concern them either.

1. Was my lack of checked luggage that caught their attention?
2. Or was it because I came from JNB only 3 weeks ago and now went back there just for a day visit?
3. Should my family expect the same treatment this coming week-end when they fly YWG-MSP-DTW-AMS-DTW-MSP-YWG on a mile run? They will only be in AMS for about 2 hours before their return flight departs.
4. Am I overly sensitive about being searched and questioned this way? It's the first time ever this has happened to me and I do travel quite a bit - 75 - 100k per year for the past 12 years. I have entered the USA by air 4 times this year before this trip.
5. or was it because I came from South Africa?
I suspect your itinerary and that it was a trip for mother's day set off some red flags. Your schedule may not seem unusual to me or others here, but I suspect it would seem strange to an ordinary person, let alone CBP.

Typically I have problems at DTW; more often than not I'm coming in on the AMS flight when this happens even if I originate elsewhere.

I've had loud obnoxious agents, I've had CBP officers tag-team me playing good cop-bad cop, I would be asked the same question 20 times in varying ways as if they were looking for me to change my answer, etc.

In this particular case, I'd probably write it off as a one-off. I get the impression they purposely jack pax around in secondary in an attempt to intimidate and to look for holes in ones story. When it has happened to me, I just answer truthfully until they get sick and tired of me and don't find anything.

I've never had any problems with MSP as a port of entry - DTW has been problematic for me on a regular basis; I now avoid DTW. None of my entries at DTW were mileage runs either, just trips abroad.

With #3, just be honest, its a mileage run for FF miles .. and if there is a secondary, I'd chalk it up to being DTW.
SDF_Traveler is offline  
Old May 13, 2009 | 3:02 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: LAX
Posts: 453
Originally Posted by jaws3
Many people do not like change. I am one. My previous entries at MSP (35 -40 over the last decade) were always of a similar experience - questions were asked, answers given, luggage collected, TSA screening done and that's the end of it. Not even on the occasion when I left MSP 3 days before 9/11 and returned from SA 2 weeks later, did the experience at MSP change. So firstly, I was caught off-guard by the "change" in attitude towards me.

Secondly, I felt very uncomfortable standing next to the luggage belt for more than 10 minutes without my passport. The agent literally just ran away with my identification document without any explanation and disappeared down a corridor. I was not left at his station or at a desk where they examine luggage. And no explanation or apology when he came back.

Thirdly, when he came back, he was rude. He told me to "go to that table". I did.
His reply "No, other side". I was never asked in a courteous way. I was ordered abruptly. Every question he asked was answered truthfully yet it seemed he was not satisfied because the same question was worded just a little differently and then asked again. Resulting in exactly the same answer that I had given before. It seemed he wanted me to give a different answer to the same question. After about 10 minutes of going through my carry-on, he said "Close it". Not "you may close up now" or "I am done, you may close your bag" or some other civilized response. There is a difference in being ordered to do something as opposed to being given permission or requested to do something. If you look at my original post, paragraph 4, you will see I used the word "told" as well. I did not write "he asked me to go with him".

Now I fully understand that he has the right to question and examine, but can that not be done in a more civilized way?. Read the placard in the entry hall where they spell out their promise to travelers. I do not think he lived up to it as he was rude, had an aggressive attitude and acted more like an army sergeant in the military barracks by issuing orders rather than communicating with the traveler. I do not expect him to be sweet as honey and I appreciate his job is not a walk in the park either, but I do not believe I did anything to arouse suspicion. But obviously I did and I don't know what it was. And that is upsetting as well. If I am selected for a random secondary check, I expect it to be courteous.

In my 4th question you can see that I am asking opinions about whether I am too sensitive. Should I just "suck it up" ? Is this fairly common to be "ordered" to have a secondary search, to be left alone nowhere specific, without your travel documents for 10 minutes without any explanation, and then be cross-examined in a rude way?

Perhaps we were just two bulls who's body language and personal space clashed . However, I am not a big man, over 50 yrs and speak slowly and clearly. He on the other hand, produces a very large shadow, has body art running up the back of both arms from the elbows to under the uniform sleeve, looked around 30yrs old and barks orders as a form of communication.

BTW, I never questioned him about anything that he asked or did.
I was looking for more of an explanation than "told" which you've provided me, thank you.

I don't necessarily think you're being too sensitive about it. Pleasantries make everything go easier. I've been bent out of shape before from curt behavior with nary a please or thank you in sight.

I'm certainly not going to justify his attitude, but a very large percentage of the CBP personnel are ex-military and this is one of the habits that I have seen die a very slow death.

FYI, an interesting historical anecdote. Pre-DHS, the officer in question would have never been hired by the US Customs Service based on the body art on his arms.
Taker Park is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.