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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Is CBP allowed to ask how you afford things? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/952565-cbp-allowed-ask-how-you-afford-things.html)

tfar May 12, 2009 3:43 pm


Originally Posted by asdca (Post 11735875)
I got hassled once coming back into the country, but an overzealous CBP office who wanted to know who bought my medium-sized stud earrings. When I replied that I bought them myself, he went into a whole interrogation about where I worked, how long I had worked there, how much I made, etc. I was fairly young at the time but I kept my cool. He was about to lose it when he asked "how can someone like you afford earrings like that?" I replied that they were cubic zirconia and that they had cost me less than $10. I think I saw steam coming out of his ears when he let me go.

Very nice story! You should have asked back how the country can afford to have someone like him working there.

He would have been super pissed. But you could have easily explained your way out of it saying that what you meant was that he was doing such thorough job and was so intelligent that certainly he'd deserve to make more than what they can pay. ;)

Till

nkedel May 15, 2009 4:21 pm


Originally Posted by GITU (Post 11725525)
I'm a grad student and don't work. I was recently asked when I told them my occupation was "student" how I afford such holidays (as they flipped through my book). I told them I "saved" - but is CBP allowed to ask? To what extent? I don't feel like telling them my personal business, and getting into a discussion of my personal finances.

I've been asked it a couple of times. One was very confrontational about it, although it's usually a bit more perfunctory.

Traveling with a laptop when on vacation tends to get more attention for me, although on my last trip it was my mini-camcorder that got checked ("what's on this?" "very boring family video from Christmas - it never made it out of my bag on this trip.")

GITU May 15, 2009 4:23 pm

That brings up an interesting question... I think I read in this thread that CBP has asked to see people's laptops before. Can you refuse?

Why would a laptop alarm people?

AngryMiller May 15, 2009 4:32 pm


Originally Posted by GITU (Post 11756111)
That brings up an interesting question... I think I read in this thread that CBP has asked to see people's laptops before. Can you refuse?

Why would a laptop alarm people?

Yes, CBP can 'confiscate' your laptop, cell phone, dvds/cds, iPod, etc. to check for kiddie porn, terrorist activities, copyright violations, etc. They do have to return the 'confiscated' devices though, but it might be awhile before you get the equipment back.

Make sure you get a receipt before leaving the screening area.

Some folks have gone as far as to encrypt their drives before leaving the US, but the courts have pushed for you giving CBP the key to unlock the encryption.

Other folks have made an image of their hard drive, wiped the hard drive clean and only installed needed software for the trip. That's pretty safe if you do a wipe over the entire drive since recovering after a total drive wipe is unpleasant and time consuming.

Be careful, and oh, most of the people they pull aside for this have been non-white, coming from places like Pakistan.

GITU May 15, 2009 4:35 pm

Yeah, my drives are encrypted. Must I give them the key, or is it a grey area, ie. when do you want your computer back.

Lovely, profiling.

Thank you, AngryMiller.

nkedel May 15, 2009 4:36 pm


Originally Posted by GITU (Post 11756111)
That brings up an interesting question... I think I read in this thread that CBP has asked to see people's laptops before. Can you refuse?

You can refuse to cooperate with them, but they can also refuse to admit the laptop or keep it for further inspection.


Why would a laptop alarm people?
Given the search they did on it, I assume they're looking for pornographic images, presumably kiddie porn in particular (it's not entirely clear to me whether bringing the normal adult stuff across the border is OK or not, especially without 18 U.S.C. 2256 and 2257 documentation.)

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Boucher

nkedel May 15, 2009 4:41 pm


Originally Posted by AngryMiller (Post 11756151)
Other folks have made an image of their hard drive, wiped the hard drive clean and only installed needed software for the trip. That's pretty safe if you do a wipe over the entire drive since recovering after a total drive wipe is unpleasant and time consuming.

Better still, if your laptop can readily have the hard disk swapped (most current models can), you can do what I do - have a clean travel drive, which gets swapped in before leaving the US, gets the relevant windows and app updates, and goes back in the drawer when I get home.

This has the added bonus that if my laptop gets stolen abroad (or held by customs) it doesn't have anything sensitive and personal, adult material aside.


Be careful, and oh, most of the people they pull aside for this have been non-white, coming from places like Pakistan.
Plenty of white guys coming back from Southeast Asia, as well.


Originally Posted by GITU (Post 11756159)
Yeah, my drives are encrypted. Must I give them the key, or is it a grey area, ie. when do you want your computer back.

It appears you have to give them the key.

There are solutions to that (one visible encrypted drive, one "hidden" one: http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=hidden-volume

AngryMiller May 15, 2009 4:49 pm


Originally Posted by GITU (Post 11756159)
Yeah, my drives are encrypted. Must I give them the key, or is it a grey area, ie. when do you want your computer back.

Lovely, profiling.

Thank you, AngryMiller.

Not a grey area at all. Recently went to court and you've got to provide them with the key.

I do a bit of international travel and try to keep up with what the CBP, DHS, and TSA want to attempt.

whirledtraveler May 15, 2009 11:45 pm


Originally Posted by AngryMiller (Post 11756225)
Not a grey area at all. Recently went to court and you've got to provide them with the key.

If you forget your key or never knew it in the first place, there isn't much that can be done.

polonius May 16, 2009 12:14 am


Originally Posted by AngryMiller (Post 11756225)
Not a grey area at all. Recently went to court and you've got to provide them with the key.

I do a bit of international travel and try to keep up with what the CBP, DHS, and TSA want to attempt.

I'd say it is still quite grey - the Appeals court in Boucher ruled that he had to give them the key ONLY because he had ALREADY allowed CBP to view his Z: drive before later refusing to unlock it. So the whole decision was based on the fact that the government had ALREADY established the existence of kiddie porn on the drive. Nothing in the ruling suggests that if you presented yourself at the border with a locked drive there would be anything they could do to compel you to unlock it.

kcmh May 16, 2009 7:01 am

Get a bunch of "cougar" porn and throw it on the hard drive. Hardly kiddie porn and I bet you get a bunch of funny looks at the boarder crossings.

I was almost deined entry into the USA back around 2002 because I took an unexpected side trip to Windsor fronm DTW one day during the DTW auto show.

I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee and the US officer wanted me to pop the tail gate no issue with that. He damn near freaked out when he saw an officers duty belt with Safariland holster attached to it. He ask where my gun was I said locked at home. He then asked for my passport, dont have one, ok birth certificate, sorry no luck it was an unexpected side trip with a buddy to the strip bar. Wheres his ID, same thing we only have or DL with us.

Well he went round and round for 5 mins about why I had a duty belt with me (oh did I say yes I kinda have to wear that during work) and no ID he said my DL was not good enough nor my friends. Well then my friend speaks up and hands him is old torn up pilots license with no ID photo on it and the officer says well those are ok.

I told him well what about me he told me to pull forward to a holding area and wait for another officer, she came out right away told her what was the deal and she says have a nice day bye.


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