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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Is CBP allowed to ask how you afford things? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/952565-cbp-allowed-ask-how-you-afford-things.html)

GITU May 10, 2009 6:02 pm

tfar, lol@last paragraph

I am a US Citizen.

Should I expect questions because I dress nicely, have a nice watch, etc? Or were you being facetious again?

tfar May 10, 2009 6:19 pm


Originally Posted by GITU (Post 11726863)
tfar, lol@last paragraph

I am a US Citizen.

Should I expect questions because I dress nicely, have a nice watch, etc? Or were you being facetious again?

Me? Facetious? That's so not me! ;)

Seriously, though, I think you might have to expect such a question when you dress nicely and wear a nice watch but don't have to answer it. The reason you have to expect such a question is probably half in cultural/sociological differences (they can't imagine how the other half lives), and half in professional curiosity. For a US citizen the latter is not really warranted and the former is an inappropriate question.

I really like wolfie's answer, too. ^ Very funny!

It is fun to toy around with them a little if you have nothing to fear.

You could also say things like the following:

- "Family money", delivered with a very stern look.
- "Is it forbidden to be a grad student and still have money left?", delivered with a look of "sincere" bewilderment.
- "I work."
- "I am such an outstanding student that my fellowship and scholarship money is more than what you make." This is gonna piss the officer off for sure.
- "I won a science competition."

But really, the best answer would be one that makes the officer understand that the question is not very appropriate without escalating the matter. Option 2 might be best for that.

Till

P.S.: For me it depends who the question comes from. I once had one of my dissertation advisers over for dinner. He is a big time business prof and makes a ton. He looked at my place and said something like "This is not how your average grad student lives." It made me feel really uncomfortable but I am prepared for such questions. I said:"That's true and I really am grateful for the privilege." That settled it and he is still wonderful with me and keeps inviting me and my GF to the nicest places for dinner. In other cases I just say "HMMM?"
I do watch out not to dress "inappropriately" when I meet my art history profs, and they have never been to my place.

GITU May 10, 2009 6:23 pm

Thanks. I guess I'll tell them the truth, which is one of those five options.

Thank you.

cj001f May 10, 2009 6:25 pm


Originally Posted by tfar (Post 11726919)
Seriously, though, I think you might have to expect such a question when you dress nicely and wear a nice watch but don't have to answer it. The reason you have to expect such a question is probably half in cultural/sociological differences (they can't imagine how the other half lives), and half in professional curiosity. For a US citizen the latter is not really warranted and the former is an inappropriate question.

You really think they are that dumb?

tfar May 10, 2009 6:36 pm


Originally Posted by cj001f (Post 11726939)
You really think they are that dumb?

I don't think it is a matter of dumb. I wouldn't consider myself dumb but I have found myself asking the same question about other people. It is a matter of perception of class standards.

For example, I am still wondering how an Austin Ear-Nose-Throat doctor was able to give $55 million to the School of Music. He must have made at least $80 million to have 55 left over. And he certainly didn't give his last shirt, considering that he has made other donations in the million dollar range. They are very modest people and you certainly don't see any conspicuous consumption on them. I think it is hardly possible, as any type of MD, to make that kind of cash while just practicing medicine. If you own your own clinic or have patents for certain medical devices you invented, I can see it. But just practicing...? In any case, I salute his generosity and think that is money well spent. They are real music and art buffs and I see them at concerts all the time. I'd never ask them, though.

Till

ESpen36 May 10, 2009 6:36 pm


Originally Posted by GITU (Post 11725603)
I thought INS ended after 9/11 and replaced by USCIS. I could be wrong...


That's partially correct. There is no INS anymore. After the creation of the Department of Homeland Security after 9/11, border control immigration and customs functions are carried out by a unified agency, Customs and Border Protection (CBP). Supposedly, all officers of the two original agencies (INS and Customs) have been cross-trained to perform both passport control and customs functions. At some smaller stations, they might perform Agriculture inspections too.


Some other useful acronyms:

USCIS - Citizenship and Immigration Services - the agency that processes naturalization applications, deals with visas, etc.

ICE - Immigration and Customs Enforcement - the investigative arm that performs a broad range of law enforcement duties not just limited to ports of entry (though sometimes you see these [heavily-armed] guys waiting at the end of the jetbridge of an arriving or departing international flight, hoping to pick up somebody who might be on a watch list or have outstanding warrants)

polonius May 10, 2009 10:54 pm


Originally Posted by GITU (Post 11726418)
So, as a USC, CBP can't interrogate you past that point? Or what would they say next?

Once again, they can ASK anything they want, but you do not have to answer.

As a VISITOR to another country, it is entirely legitimate for an immigration officer to determine if you have funds adequate for your stay. As a citizen returning to your own country, they have to let you in no matter how much or how little you have.

Generally speaking, you will have less hassle if you just answer, but in extreme cases, I have refused. These have included once when an agent asked how much funds I was travelling with. Twice, I've had a a US CBP flip through my U.S. passport and ask if I had a visa to enter the U.S.A. In these cases, I stop dealing with the officer right then and there, and just say "please bring your supervisor". They resist at first, but eventually, the supervisor is summoned. When s/he arrives, I'll explain what I was just asked, and then ask the supervisor to please pay better attention to the training of their staff. After that, I am usually on my way within minutes.

tfar May 11, 2009 12:31 am


Originally Posted by polonius (Post 11727856)
Once again, they can ASK anything they want, but you do not have to answer.

As a VISITOR to another country, it is entirely legitimate for an immigration officer to determine if you have funds adequate for your stay. As a citizen returning to your own country, they have to let you in no matter how much or how little you have.

Generally speaking, you will have less hassle if you just answer, but in extreme cases, I have refused. These have included once when an agent asked how much funds I was travelling with. Twice, I've had a a US CBP flip through my U.S. passport and ask if I had a visa to enter the U.S.A. In these cases, I stop dealing with the officer right then and there, and just say "please bring your supervisor". They resist at first, but eventually, the supervisor is summoned. When s/he arrives, I'll explain what I was just asked, and then ask the supervisor to please pay better attention to the training of their staff. After that, I am usually on my way within minutes.

Good job! A US CBP officer who doesn't recognize a US passport is ludicrous.

graraps May 11, 2009 2:19 am


Originally Posted by polonius (Post 11727856)
As a VISITOR to another country, it is entirely legitimate for an immigration officer to determine if you have funds adequate for your stay.

"Legitimate" does not automatically coincide with "appropriate". Being asked multiple personal questions by multiple different officers at the same time, and in plain view/earshot of other travellers (which is what happened to me in AKL) IMHO is certainly not appropriate, even if it doesn't happen to violate any law.

tonerman May 11, 2009 3:14 am

What was wrong with the OP's answer? I think that is the way I would go.
" I saved up for the trip",that should be end of discussion IMO.

GITU May 11, 2009 5:42 am


Originally Posted by polonius (Post 11727856)
As a VISITOR to another country, it is entirely legitimate for an immigration officer to determine if you have funds adequate for your stay. As a citizen returning to your own country, they have to let you in no matter how much or how little you have.

What countries tend to ask for information? And if they do, what are they asking for? To see a credit card? A bank statement? Explanation?

Thanks!

stupidhead May 11, 2009 5:51 am


Originally Posted by polonius (Post 11727856)
Once again, they can ASK anything they want, but you do not have to answer.

As a VISITOR to another country, it is entirely legitimate for an immigration officer to determine if you have funds adequate for your stay. As a citizen returning to your own country, they have to let you in no matter how much or how little you have.

Generally speaking, you will have less hassle if you just answer, but in extreme cases, I have refused. These have included once when an agent asked how much funds I was travelling with. Twice, I've had a a US CBP flip through my U.S. passport and ask if I had a visa to enter the U.S.A. In these cases, I stop dealing with the officer right then and there, and just say "please bring your supervisor". They resist at first, but eventually, the supervisor is summoned. When s/he arrives, I'll explain what I was just asked, and then ask the supervisor to please pay better attention to the training of their staff. After that, I am usually on my way within minutes.

A US immigration officer that doesn't recognize a US passport or read the letters on the front of it? Had I been the supervisor, I would have fired him on the spot. I'm surprised that guy wasn't fired on the spot. That's like a Citibank teller not recognizing a Citibank debit card. Unforgivable.

flyingfkb May 11, 2009 6:19 am


Originally Posted by GITU (Post 11725525)
I'm a grad student and don't work. I was recently asked when I told them my occupation was "student" how I afford such holidays (as they flipped through my book). I told them I "saved" - but is CBP allowed to ask? To what extent? I don't feel like telling them my personal business, and getting into a discussion of my personal finances.

Thanks!

That is probably the most common question when you tell them you are a student. Happened to me almost every time I came to the US or Canada while I was a student.

goaliemn May 11, 2009 7:45 am


Originally Posted by GITU (Post 11728576)
What countries tend to ask for information? And if they do, what are they asking for? To see a credit card? A bank statement? Explanation?

When I was a student and drove up to Canada for a long weekend, Canadian Customs turned me back, and said I had to bring $400 cash with me to prove I could support myself over the weekend. Having acouple of credit cards wasn't good enough for them. I found an ATM that would give me that much, went back and they let me in. When I left Canada, I still had all $400, as I used my credit cards for everything.

Pretty much any country can ask for anything.

polonius May 11, 2009 7:45 am


Originally Posted by stupidhead (Post 11728593)
A US immigration officer that doesn't recognize a US passport or read the letters on the front of it? Had I been the supervisor, I would have fired him on the spot. I'm surprised that guy wasn't fired on the spot. That's like a Citibank teller not recognizing a Citibank debit card. Unforgivable.

I've also been asked to not be so hard on incompetent CBP agents because "our biggest problem is retention". Sounds to me like if they were not flexible with their standards, they wouldn't have any workers at all.


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