Another visit to the USA...and another empty threat by the TSA
Apr 7, 2009 | 10:45 am
#16
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Nice work, Polonius.
I once had one of the private security contractors who are still in use at Kansas City International turn over his badge to prevent me from reading it after a frustrating encounter in which he proclaimed laws that didn't exist, I got confirmation of my understanding of things at the airline ticket counter, and he watched me walk through the checkpoint even though he thought I shouldn't be allowed.
A few months ago, a TSA ID-and-boarding-pass-checker at Sea-Tac become aggressive and threatened to send me to the back of the line after I politely asked why some people were allowed to cut to the front of the line that about 60 of us were waiting in, then politely responded to his suggestion that I take it up with the airlines by expressing my belief that when people pay more to airlines for their tickets, it's reasonable for the airline to provide them with a higher level of service, but it's not reasonable for our federal government -- who created and managed the line we were standing in and who created the checkpoint we were waiting to traverse -- to give special service like skipping the line to those people. He didn't have anything to say about whether people should be relegated to the slow line to take care of something their government requires them to do because they didn't pay extra. He did say that I was making him nervous (which I recognized as police lingo for "You're doing something I don't like. Stop or else I'll say that you were threatening me and stop you whether I have the authority to do you or not.") and that if I said anything else he would send me to the back of the line.
It seems that in my cases and in Polonius', it would have been good to have captured the incidents on video tape. Polonius, have you considered recording these encounters?
I once had one of the private security contractors who are still in use at Kansas City International turn over his badge to prevent me from reading it after a frustrating encounter in which he proclaimed laws that didn't exist, I got confirmation of my understanding of things at the airline ticket counter, and he watched me walk through the checkpoint even though he thought I shouldn't be allowed.
A few months ago, a TSA ID-and-boarding-pass-checker at Sea-Tac become aggressive and threatened to send me to the back of the line after I politely asked why some people were allowed to cut to the front of the line that about 60 of us were waiting in, then politely responded to his suggestion that I take it up with the airlines by expressing my belief that when people pay more to airlines for their tickets, it's reasonable for the airline to provide them with a higher level of service, but it's not reasonable for our federal government -- who created and managed the line we were standing in and who created the checkpoint we were waiting to traverse -- to give special service like skipping the line to those people. He didn't have anything to say about whether people should be relegated to the slow line to take care of something their government requires them to do because they didn't pay extra. He did say that I was making him nervous (which I recognized as police lingo for "You're doing something I don't like. Stop or else I'll say that you were threatening me and stop you whether I have the authority to do you or not.") and that if I said anything else he would send me to the back of the line.
It seems that in my cases and in Polonius', it would have been good to have captured the incidents on video tape. Polonius, have you considered recording these encounters?
Also, after the St. Louis incident it's occurred to me that I should be at least audio taping these things. Unfortunately, I bought my iPod touch just before the new one -- with recording capability -- came out, but perhaps I'll buy a new one anyway. I do a lot of regulated commercial negotiations for a living, and one of our lawyers has one of the recording iPods which we use to record negotiating sessions - it works great. I carry my iPod in any case, but if I had the new one I could just start it before entering any checkpoint.
Apr 7, 2009 | 10:52 am
#17
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cross-reference related post
In case you're interested, I'm working on the gathering of acknowledgements from TSA airport managers that TSA does not prohibit any photography or video recording at airports unless it interferes with TSA operations.
Apr 7, 2009 | 11:24 am
#19
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Not in any of the 50 states of the US if the primary subject of the recording is one's self and the rest is just background noise -- even if discernible -- in an environment where recording devices are already noticeable as being used.
Apr 7, 2009 | 11:28 am
#21
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source for info re: limitations on recording without consent of all parties?
I recently heard that 38 U.S. states allow audio recording when at least one part is aware of the action. I'm not familiar with any laws similar to those in the other 12 states that apply to still or motion photography.
Apr 7, 2009 | 11:38 am
#22
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Can someone cite a reliable source for this? I'm not doubting your knowledge, Deeg, just seeking something I can reference elsewhere.
I recently heard that 38 U.S. states allow audio recording when at least one part is aware of the action. I'm not familiar with any laws similar to those in the other 12 states that apply to still or motion photography.
I recently heard that 38 U.S. states allow audio recording when at least one part is aware of the action. I'm not familiar with any laws similar to those in the other 12 states that apply to still or motion photography.
Apr 7, 2009 | 11:40 am
#23
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Can someone cite a reliable source for this? I'm not doubting your knowledge, Deeg, just seeking something I can reference elsewhere.
I recently heard that 38 U.S. states allow audio recording when at least one part is aware of the action. I'm not familiar with any laws similar to those in the other 12 states that apply to still or motion photography.
I recently heard that 38 U.S. states allow audio recording when at least one part is aware of the action. I'm not familiar with any laws similar to those in the other 12 states that apply to still or motion photography.
Perhaps he would be willing to delve into this.
Apr 7, 2009 | 11:43 am
#24
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Can someone cite a reliable source for this? I'm not doubting your knowledge, Deeg, just seeking something I can reference elsewhere.
I recently heard that 38 U.S. states allow audio recording when at least one part is aware of the action. I'm not familiar with any laws similar to those in the other 12 states that apply to still or motion photography.
I recently heard that 38 U.S. states allow audio recording when at least one part is aware of the action. I'm not familiar with any laws similar to those in the other 12 states that apply to still or motion photography.
That the venue owner/operator has declared that recorded monitoring may be underway is quite often useful in meeting the "consent" requirement (where relevant).
Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 7, 2009 at 11:48 am
Apr 7, 2009 | 11:49 am
#25
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Sorry, I'm a little confused by the OP, mainly since I don't fly in and out of IAD much. When you clear customs, do you then have to go through the TSA dragnet to leave the airport?
Mike
Mike
Apr 7, 2009 | 12:05 pm
#26
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At IAD: one way, no; another way, yes. It depends on whether or not one has gone the way of arrivals or accidentally via flight connections.
Apr 7, 2009 | 12:18 pm
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Apr 7, 2009 | 1:05 pm
#28
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If the international-arriving passenger who is terminating their journey at the airport goes the wrong way (i.e., the same way as international-arriving connecting passengers), then the way "out" involves the TSA screening check-point; if they go the correct way (i.e., the way for those international-arriving passengers terminating their journey at the airport and avoid the path for connecting passengers), then there is no TSA screening check-point.
Apr 7, 2009 | 4:53 pm
#29
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The whole purpose of the discussion regarding recording was to capture conversations with TSA personnel. That is not "background noise". And TSA checkpoints are certainly not "an environment where recording devices are already noticeable as being used."
For crying out loud, I was simply trying to help a fellow FT'er stay out of trouble.
Apr 7, 2009 | 5:14 pm
#30
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In case you're interested, I'm working on the gathering of acknowledgements from TSA airport managers that TSA does not prohibit any photography or video recording at airports unless it interferes with TSA operations.