Ask a SPOTnik
 

Hello everyone,

I am a BDO, I have been reading your forum for some time, and have finally been inspired by your open hostility and derision. I will attempt to answer any questions or concerns you pose me, and we'll all see how long I keep my job.

I am not an official TSA spokesperson, and am not authorized to take this action, although I view talking with the public and attempting to answer questions to be part of my official job duties. I am, however, doing this all on my own time, so please understand if I am not as quick with the responses as you might like.

To start, I'm curious about your experience, education, training, and overall qualifications to be interpreting any individual's behavior.

Welcome to Flyertalk, spotnik.

Why do you think other FT posters post on anything other than their own time and are therefore able to respond quicker? Is that something that triggers automatic suspicion in the mind of a BDO? Is this your first attempt at a troll? Or is it just par for the course and BDO personnel really are that stupid? Enquiring minds need to know ;)

first off, welcome to flyertalk.

When I answer your questions in a tongue you don't speak, am I a terrorist?

Can you truthfully say you've made air travel safer?

Do you believe you serve a purpose in the "layers" of security, or are you just there for a paycheck and a possibility of moving up in the Federal job ladder?

I have a beard and like to wear multiple layers, am I a terrorist?

Yes that is a Quran in my carryon, am I a terrorist?

I have multiple ID's from multiple jurisdictions, am I a terrorist?

I'm traveling with USD $10,001 cash, am I a terrorist?

Am I a terrorist until proven otherwise?

Welcome. I'll keep it civil.

Can you legally keep someone from flying if they refuse to engage you in conversation, or do you just delay them?

I had about 2.5 years with TSA prior to my promotion to BDO, and about 2 additional years of security experience before TSA, which included work in a casino and on a college campus. I hold a bachelor's degree in criminal justice with additional coursework in psychology and sociology, and I am a police academy graduate.

The basic SPOT training consists of 4 days of classroom training and 3 days of OJT, as has been reported in many media outlets. I will look up the links again, if you like. The days are typically 10 to 12 hours long, and the instructors are not shy about informing students that they will work as long as it takes to cover the day's curriculum. Every person I know who passed the training studied 3 to 4 hours after class. People do fail the training.

There is also a candidate screening process accomplished through the application and interview process. All I know about that is that I passed.

I stated in my introductory post that I am doing this because I consider it a part of my duty as a public servant. I wanted to specify that I was using my own time, so as to avoid any problems that might come from people (my employer, for instance) assuming that I am, therefore, using federal time to post on an internet bulletin board.

I have also seen many posters on this forum express interest in the BDO program. I am only one person, and might easily be overwhelmed by the sheer number of posts to which I must respond.

Thank you for the partial reply. You obviously missed the quote of your original post which would tend to suggest that I already read it. I eagerly await the answers to the other questions I posed :rolleyes:

Has nothing to do with behavioral detection

Probably more so than the checkpoint TSOs

Every security plan has layers of security. I dont know too many people that work for free, but I know many volunteers. Moving up? To where? Not in the SPOT program.

You are not a terrorist but probably live in the north.

Has nothing to do with behavioral screening

No, you just move around alot

Could be buying a car, a boat or something for cash but we really wouldn't have or need to make the time to count it. Thats the LEOs job.
Probably not a terrorist, but maybe an illegal. Just thought that I'd share my thoughts:cool:

I added numbers to help clarify my responses

1. If you answer questions in a language other than the ones which I speak, I will make every effort to communicate with you effectively. If that is not possible, I will ensure you are screened according to TSA requirements, and I will do everything I can to make sure you get on your plane without further problems.

2 & 3. I believe that behavior detection, if applied correctly, greatly helps the security of air travel. I believe that TSA has developed a good program, and I believe that any BDO found violating that program should be fired with prejudice. I also believe that the "layer" approach is a good approach. I think we should spend less time on "random" elements and focus more on elements that have a record of producing results.

4. Probably not. Beards and many layers are quite popular in my region, especially from September to May.

5. Quar'ans have impressed me as being, nearly universally, some of the most beautiful of religious texts. I understand it has a lot of passages about living peacefully, being generous to your fellow human beings, and behaving modestly.

6. Probably not. Not sure what is SSI on the ID issue. I will research and post more when I find that answer.

7. Probably not. Again, I will research and respond in more detail once I know what the TSA will let me say on the issue.

8. You are innocent until proven otherwise. I'm pretty sure that issue is covered in amendments 4 through 6.

Thank you.

Unfortunately, your question is kind of a complicated issue. You do not, to my knowledge, have to talk to any TSA employee. This includes BDOs. You might, however, be able to decrease the length of your delay by engaging in conversation. There are also numerous stories on this forum about rouge TSO/BDO who decide to harass people for "failing to cooperate." If you run into one of them, all bets are off.

Well, SUSPENDED, I'm sorry you found my first reply inadequate. I shall try to do better:

As I explained, I do not wish to give my employer statements to use against me. That is why I specified that I am posting on Flyertalk with my own time. There is no more motive than that. I am one person, so I might be overwhelmed with questions. If that happens, I ask for your patience.

I am not sure what you mean by "Is that something that triggers automatic suspicion in the mind of a BDO?" Based on context, I can only assume that you mean 'Are you automatically suspicious of people who spend their own time discussing travel safety and security or government policy?' If that is in fact what you meant, my answer would be 'No, I find it refreshing to encounter people who challenge the government. I think this is a good thing.' If I misunderstood this question, please attempt to rephrase it and I shall try again at an answer.

I am not trolling. In fact, given the way TSA seems to like their people posting on this forum, posting at all is probably a bad idea. Many of you seem to be frustrated by the lack of information from TSA, and I think the program would benefit from better contact with the public. (NOT press releases) I think this action will benefit the public, who I serve, and the program that I believe to be extremely valuable to US aviation security. That is my only motive.

"Or is it just par for the course and BDO personnel really are that stupid?" Again, I am not quite sure what you mean by this. I don't think BDO personnel are stupid. Many have significant education and work experience beyond the base program requirements. The job requires a great deal of mental engagement, which I would love to tell you about as soon as the SSI office says that I can. If you mean to say that BDOs frequently attempt to engage you with disingenuous trap type questions, I would say that, at best, those BDOs need more training. At worst, you have encountered some of the rouge TSOs who decided to do their own "SPOT." If you encountered the latter, I hope those TSOs were quickly put in their proper place (the unemployment line.)

I live in Puerto Rico and fly mostly out of SJU and MIA ;)

Agreed

Wow... thanks. Seriously. I know that none of it is illegal, but nonetheless, I am curious

Mind sharing that with the rest of your coworkers?

Several TSA staff that I know only went there as it was the easiest way in the federal government and have used it as a launching pad to other jobs within the fed. That's what I meant.

I live in Puerto Rico :p

That's the most common sense answer I've ever received with that question. Seriously.

So would you report me to an LEO even through that isn't illegal

LOL!!! That's awesome. I've never been called an illegal. That's great.

:low whistle:

Why should there be delay at all?

Oh, goodie, an actual BDO. Now I get to stop trying to cajole answers out of our own BDOs and let someone else with more first-hand knowledge answer questions. Though there is one inconsistency that smacks, and I'll put a question out there, too. :D

That being the case, why were our BDOs gone for seven days, then came back for their three days of OJT? And this might be more like a no-brainer than anything, but I'll assume you know a definitive answer -- can/does/how often do the airport's local FSD assign additional training to the BDOs not required by the baseline?

The 10-12 hours part fits what I was told, but our BDOs are going to be going for some kind of special training with the FBI to the tune of 100+ hours. Is that nationwide with the program, or just something our own FSD wants done, and approved the funding for?

Here's a question: if you identify a person for additional screening based on their behavior, can/will you tell the passenger why? Would you volunteer that information or wait for the passenger to ask?

And how specific can you be? Would you tell him, "You're wearing a heavy coat in September, sir," or would you say something generic like "Your behavior has led me to believe a secondary screening will be necessary."

Welcome to FT.

A TSA employee (let alone a BDO) who recognizes that the Bill of Rights doesn't stop at the airport terminal? Somebody promote this guy. And send him around the country to do training. He can start with MKE. :)

Where can I read rules TSA requires me to follow?
 

Spotnik, where has TSA published a list of all the rules and regulations that TSA will subject someone to if that person wishes to cross a U.S. Government checkpoint at an airport en route to the gate from which his domestic flight will depart, not including laws that the person is required to abide by outside of the airport checkpoint (i.e., just those rules and regulations that apply only at the checkpoint). Please provide a URL or name of the government publication.

I'm not interested in guidelines, hints, and out-of-date or internally-inconsistent Web pages, but the official and legal definition of all the rules beyond those which we were already required to follow that TSA requires us to follow in order to avoid having our right to travel restricted when we attempt to pass through the "roadblocks" TSA has erected at our airports .

first off, welcome to flyertalk and thank you for taking the time to offer your thoughts, experiences, comments, etc as it's always good to have views "from the other side" ^ but also be careful as "big brother is out there" ;)

actually, imho, it's not that complicated but rather black and white. if i refuse or otherwise don't want to engage in a conversation with a bdo, that is my right and according to the tsa's own civil rights policy the tsa does not have the right to "harass" or otherwise delay me (bullet points 3, 4 & 5). i can simply say something like "i prefer not to speak with you", "i prefer not to speak with a bdo" or if i'm cranky, "please spot someone else" ;) and that's it-no detention as the tsa does not have that authority, no secondary screening, no nothing as anything other than letting me go on my way is harassment and retaliatory. so with that, what is the redress procedure (other than calling or e-mailing the tsa contact center)? if i ask for the bdo's name, badge and i/d number, what happens if the bdo refuses?

I'm an introvert who hates talking to strange people in public. I tend not to smile or make eye contact with total strangers. I've been told this seems rude, especially to your average extrovert who for some reason can talk to walls and carry on a seemingly meaningful conversation.

However, if I behave as my usual rude self and refuse to engage in smalltalk with a total stranger will you think I'm a terrorist with something to hide?

spotnik, welcome to Flyertalk!

Please excuse the less than warm welcome from some members. We've become suspicious of those pretending to be who they are not over the years. Plus anyone associated with DHS is not usually welcomed with open arms.

Having said all that, we're satisfied to give you the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. And we do appreciate your taking time to answer the questions.

You are now a FT member and, as such, are protected from verbal abuse or harassment from the membership. We expect all dialogue to remain civil and on-topic here. The moderators will be keeping a close eye on this thread to insure this.

Thanks.

_________________________

Cholula
Travel Safety/Security Forum Moderator

I have been to a few leadership seminars with staff from PR and we had a great time;)


see above



BDOs try to use as much common sense as possible



Its not for the BDOs to determine how much is there, but to report it to higher ups



It wasn't meant as a insult, but a possibility.

BDOs do not know what you have in your bag, what religion you are, nor do they care about your background or ethnicity. Behavioral detection has been around for a long time. Google it. Hundreds of books have been written on this subject. I have seen many here refer to BDOs not having the 6 month Quantico training course and therefore not qualified to conduct this task but nobody can really produce a syllabus for that course to compare. If you are having issues at the airport, it really does stand out.

Because the BDO is immediately suspicious of someone who prefers not to answer questions posed by someone with no legal authority. Or, more likely, you have just dissed that 'authority' and the BDO is going to make you pay.

I haven't seen the content of the BDO training (obviously), but I can make an educated guess as to much of what's in it. In a word; fluff. Discredited and ineffective fluff. You cannot teach behavioral assessment in 4 days, or 7 days or 4 months or whatever. And those without an innate aptitude for it cannot be taught at all.

But carry on Keeping Us All Safe©.

Two questions for tsadude1.

Are you the Kipster himself?

Regarding the $10k. Absolutely nothing illegal about having that much cash or more. Why would TSA concern itself with a legal activity?

I'm glad... I have a great time here too :D Did you pick up a bottle of Barrilito while you were here? IMO, it's one of the most underrated rums available... and it's cheap!

Why does it matter though, and why does it need to be reported? I can have $1,000,000 in cash on me, and as long as it remains within the US, it isn't illegal.


It's alright... I was just messing with that last one. :p


Thank god that the airports & seaplanes I've been using mainly for intra-caribbean travel don't have TSA. SIG & FAJ ^^ Show up 20 minutes before departure, passport in hand... and just do the paperwork and off I go!

No and I honestly could not pick him out of a line up
It's a requirement for us to report it and a requirement for someone else to investigate. Could we ignore it, probably. Has it been a requirement since TSA took over from the private screeners? yes.

It is nothing whatsoever against you, but I just find it completely absurd that something completely legal to do requires an investigation. I sometimes travel with over $10k cash when traveling from the mainland to San Juan, simply because the hold times that PR banks place on mainland checks are extraordinarily long, especially when it's a check of that amount. I am honestly astounded that it is TSA requirement to investigate it.

I am assuming it would be a LEO that investigates and not the TSO, am I correct?

This is a substantial revelation and one that I don't think has come out before.

It seems you're saying it's a requirement (i.e., part of the SOP) that you report someone carrying a large amount of cash to "someone else" (be it within TSA or a LEO). Not an option or up to screener judgment, but a requirement. Correct?

As others have said, that is a perfectly legal activity. There's a big difference between reporting drugs you see (controversial, but at least illegal), and reporting someone who is not carrying contraband.

What's the threshold? Wad of cash 2 inches thick? Cash found "artfully concealed" in somewhere other than a wallet? A pair of hundred dollar bills? :rolleyes:

Law enforcement and prosecutors also have an annoying tendency to assume anyone carrying lots of cash is a bad guy, and there are a number of unfortunate asset seizure/forfeiture laws relating to that. But the difference is that if I'm carrying lots of cash but otherwise not doing anything wrong, it's extremely unlikely I'm going to get searched by a LEO. (what with the 4th amendment and all)

On the other hand, TSA has their lovely "consensual," "administrative" searches (that you can't back out of :mad:) that travelers are essentially forced to submit to. TSA seems to think it is within their right to paw through wallets, envelopes, etc. even if those have already cleared a WTMD or x-ray, giving them access to the cash carried. So anyone who gets any sort of secondary search has a good chance of TSA finding their cash, and apparently then reporting them.

This is absolutely disgusting. The USA is really going down the tubes thanks to DHS/TSA.

If it is a requirement to report, then it calls more into question the validity of the administrative search. It is for this reason that TSO's are not given any instruction in the identification of drugs.

If I fart a SBD and then sort of wiggle and move to the side and try to glance at someone to make everyone else think it was that person...... am I a terrorist?

Welcome
 

spotnik:
First off welcome to FT . It's great that you are willing to answer the questions. While I don't fly as much as most of the people who post on here, I am around TSA 5 days a week at work. And I'll grant you there are "a few" good ones & I will talk to a couple of them but for the most part I have zero respect for them as I see them "in action" each working day. IMO the bdos at my airport don't have a clue(they are brainwashed) as I've talked to a couple of them.

Please excuse the above... I thought we were playing a game to poke fun at the illogical and ridiculous nature of anything related to airport security.

I can confirm that. It's happened twice at Huntsville, one of them where I personally found it (dude had, like, $14,000 in just, like, wads of $100s in his pockets) during a pat-down. I reported it to the Supervisor, Supervisor called Customs. Customs got there, asked him a few questions, and let him go after determining that he wasn't traveling overseas (which was, for some reason, something we were very specifically not allowed to inquire about ourselves; probably has something to do with legal liability and law enforcement procedures). The whole shebang took about ten minutes, IIRC, with nine of it being Customs' travel time.

Again, carrying 10K+ in cash domestically isn't illegal. I wouldn't call it wise necessarily, but there's nothing illegal about it.

Our training coordinator here at Huntsville put it very eloquently, I think, when it comes to the cash thing and reporting any drugs/drug paraphernalia found during the searches: "If you're driving down the road and you happen to see a car under a bridge, you stop and see if they need help. You're not driving down the road looking for cars under bridges, though."

Where is the duty/authority to call anyone? There is nothing illegal about carrying any amount of cash domestically. There isn't even anything illegal about carrying it internationally, as long as you declare it if over the limit.

What is it exactly that you are reporting to the supervisor, and what is the basis for it?

There is no reason to detain a traveller on the basis of his legal carrying of cash, no different than him carrying a camera, a hat, his shoes, jacket or anything else.

Am I missing something?

On multiple IDs and "excessive cash"
 

mkt,

I promised you a response on these issues, and I think I can talk about it a bit without running afoul of the SSI goons.

The TSA PR statements emphasize that we check ID materials because we need to know that you are who you say you are. Multiple IDs, therefore, should not be an issue unless they would open a question as to whether you misrepresented your identity.

The "excessive cash" business requires us to call a LEO if we observe an amount of cash which appears to be over $10,000 USD. Frankly, I have as much TSA training on recognizing $10,000 cash as I have from TSA in recognizing illegal drugs.

TSA does not seem to provide much quality information on these issues, and most of what I have found has been discussed many times on this forum. I will, however, post the links again if any of you wish for them.

Is this written in your SOP? If so, great - I will be targeting that as part of our anti-TSA lobbying efforts. The TSA is not permitted to make up laws which are not germane to the scope of their authority. Carrying cash in ANY amount is not illegal - and any 'suspicion' resulting from your finding of said cash is so far outside the scope of your search, I will ask our legislators to order TSA management to remove that from your SOP.

If it's not in your SOP, I will ask our legislators to question Kippy during his next appearance why his staff seem so interested in reporting cash when they seem so unable to find guns, knives and bomb parts.

Well, my multiple ID's all have the same details, albeit with varying addresses. I've been using my passport as my primary ID, with it paperclipped so it only opens to my photo & information, and my TWIC as backup.

Unfortunately, any answer I could offer would be, at best, an educated guess. Although the BDO program has been around for a while, widespread hiring and implementation across the country is fairly recent. They have been doing some experimentation with the training program, and at my airport we have been told to expect a bunch of shiny new training coming soon. I do not, however, have any knowledge about what the training is or when we will actually receive it.

BDOs have nationally mandated recurrent training, just like TSOs. It is just a different set of courses to reflect the different job duties. Locally, we can be assigned additional training, although this content varies according to the FSD and management priorities. We are strongly encouraged to seek additional training and education opportunities. Currently, I am reading an excellent sociological study of suicide terrorist campaigns.