Your description fits most of the people I deal with on a daily basis, not one of them is any threat to the safety of an airplane. Could they go nuts once up in the air - yes, they sure could but for a BDO to interview them and perhaps try to keep them off a plane due to the behaviors they can exhibit is pure and simple discrimination against people with profound disabilities - and not legal.

These are adults, often living on their own and for the most part making their own way in the world. Are they different in the extreme? Most certainly, but that is no reason for them to be treated as suspects at an airport.

And they don't travel on one-way tickets.

What, you think the TSA is lying ? You don't trust their employees to abide by the SOP ? Why do you hate America ?

Of course they will send you to secondary if they feel like it. You are free to summon a supervisor and/or fill out a complaint. And good luck with THAT.

BDOs do not have the legal authority to keep people off of planes

How would you know that a person has such a medical condition unless it was in such an extreme state at that present time?

maybe not all but yes they do

This is an inherent issue with fixed wing drivers :p

EVERY BANKING TRANSACTION $10,000.00 OR MORE, IS REPORTED TO THE TREASURY and IRS.

Further, when travelling INTERNATIONALLY, a declaration that you are carrying $10,000 OR MORE is REQUIRED by law.

Customs, in turn, reports the information to the Treasury and IRS.

That's why TSA and Customs can ask in the PERFORMANCE of their official duties, and IF they open your luggage and find large amounts of cash, the question then becomes are you invoved in something illegal and money-laundering? Are the bills REAL or counterfeit?

Wire-Transfers and Letters of Credit are much safer instruments for large amounts.

I didn't realize one was no longer allowed to travel if one has a mental disability. Of course, one runs the risk of being gunned down in the jetway is they have a mental illness. Buyer beware.
The mission creep continues; now the TSA serves as the psychiatry clinic.
Talk about roosters running the hen house.

I've done a bit of rotor-wing training. Everyone one of the instructors (after catching their breath and the normal color returns to their face) told me that I suffer from a known psychiatric disorder called "fixed-wing fixation".

Each one of them told me I might be cured of "fixed-wing fixation" but none of them were professionally qualified to help in my therapy to cure that disorder. And no none of them knew of any other rotor-wing instructors that could help me.:):)

But I did enjoy reading FlyCent's comments about how anything on an aircraft's exterior can handle take-offs/landing and flying at 32,000' therefore can handle someone grabbing on to it for his weight.

I was not aware that TSA screeners (or inspector in this case) got such in depth training on aircraft limits/vulnerabilities.

I still look forward to a BDO engaging in conversation with me to determine my "hostile intent". He won't have a clue how much behavior he'll detect.

Talk about ridiculous inflammatory comments to justify a personal bias.

None of which has the slightest legal (or moral) relevance* to someone flying domestically. But you knew that.

(*absent a specific and limited BOLO)

no, they cannot confiscate what is legal only what you did not declare

doober is 100% correct-what the tsa ways o their website is flat out wrong

emphasis mine. not correct. only cash transactions which exceed $10,000.00u.s. are reported. they are reported to fincen and not to the irs (urban myth). an financial institution may (n.b. may) report other transactions (cash or non-cash) if under the threshold if they appear suspicious and are perhaps the customer trying to avoid/evade the reporting requirements.

If I'm asked by any of your well-intentioned but clueless colleagues about the reason for my overseas travel when on business for Uncle Sam, I politely but firmly say it's "official business." None of them have ever pressed me for more detail, and if they did, they would get nothing.

goalie is correct here. Cash transactions over $10,000.00 are reported.

Anyone can read the form here if you are interested --
http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin104_ctr.pdf

Forms used to be filed with the IRS, but now they are filed with FinCen.

(34 year banker here)

Despite what the TSA PR machine claims, the government has no need to know that any pax is who they say they are; it has nothing to do with flight or airport security.
Google "Ramsey Yousef" to see how, even after being in custody for more than 10 years, the Federal Government still is not sure who he really is.
The idea that the governemnt has a need to know who is occupying seats on airline flights to segregate those with nefarious intent, and even more comical, that they're finding that information from magic flashlights and pathetically slow visual interrogation of "travel documents" of unknown lineage, is comically and historically preposterous.


Do you miss East Germany all that much? Glad to know that you think you or any "serve and protect :rolleyes: " organization has the right to claim US domestic airports, typically built with public money, as an operating base for a dragnet, and as a constitution free zone. (Look up 4th amendment; unreasonable search and seizure). Newsflash, Mr. Fife; carrying > $10,000 while travelling domestically, is perfectly legal. Your claims of a nexus between carrying cash and illicit drugs and/or terrorism may be statistically correct, I'm sure there's a similar one between ownership of an Eldorado and involvement in prostitution. In neither case is it permissible or appropriate for authorities to delay, impede or harass anyone carrying on with their business, until there's a defensible and articulable reasonable suspicion of illegal activity, and presence or absence of large amounts of cash (or of an Eldorado) does not make the threshold. :mad:

Nope I don't miss East Germany nor am I a member of the Stasi, but hey, opinions, such as yours, are like...well, you know the rest. Typical New Yorker based on your rather elitist and condescending response...ie "Mr. Fife," etc. Anyway, news flash...the US Supreme Court provides that the administrative searches are legal and within the constraints of the Constitution. Here's a little more education for you. An LEO doesn't need reasonable suspicion to initiate an investigation...you only need that level in order to detain an individual as long as reasonably necessary to dispel your suspicion or establish probable cause. Carrying a large amount of cash, along with a few other characteristics, would certainly compel me to at least do a "walk & talk." Don't like it...simple, find another way to travel. That's the freedom you have, so enjoy it! Feel free to continue question my service...it's your right. However, if you really want to prove your mettle (thanks knotyeagle for sp help) and have some credibility to criticize, how 'bout joining me on my upcoming year-long deployment overseas in Uncle Sam's service."

TB

Actually Terminal Bliss I have been overseas on deployment. If you have the chance to ask for an Afghanistan tour please do so. When you are at a 10,000' summit trying to hold altitude in a CH46 while holes are being shot thru the hull then you can say you are doing something for transportation security.

Till then please let us know which terminal you are so blissful about? I'd be happy to come by and discuss this with you. My name is posted below unlike your posts.

Oh and I almost forget, the correct spelling for the word "metal" would be "mettle". Unless you were talking about the brass ones that you don't have anyway.

5 results for: mettle Browse Nearby Entries
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
met·tle Audio Help [met-l] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. courage and fortitude: a man of mettle.
2. disposition or temperament: a man of fine mettle.
—Idiom
3. on one's mettle, in the position of being incited to do one's best The loss of the first round put him on his mettle to win the match.
[Origin: 1575–85; sp. var. of metal, in metaphoric usages]

—Synonyms 1. valor, pluck, vigor, ardor, nerve, fiber.

and 30+ years banker here (sadly currently employed but i digress)...

the form you referenced is the currency transaction report which that only applies to "over the counter counter transactions" at a bank, check cashing place, cashino etc....

the form in question for the transportation of cash or monetary instruments into or out of the u.s is the (CMIR) Report of International Transportation of Currency or Monetary Instruments (FinCEN 105)

from the instructions (and the bolding is in the instructions):

n.b. it has always been my interpretation of the "penalties" that only the excess amount is "forfeitable" but i'm sure customs "has their own interpretation" as well (which of course will differ from officer to officer ;))

n.b. again, remember, the "exceeding the $10k limit" only applies when transporting currency or other monetary instruments to or from the u.s. so when i go to las on september, 5th with my $15,000 (i wish, it's only 2k but again i digress), i am not breaking any laws and neither the tsa and any leo can tell me otherwise as last time i looked, although las "is it's own world" ;), it's still part of the united states.

No, she was someone like me (possessing an utter lack of ambition, and a fair degree of suspicion/amusement over the workings of our organization). LOL

The BDOs give me the creeps, actually. Maybe because they all seem to display a similar mindset?

Now, when it comes to TSOs (and even leads and supes) you'll find wide variances, from people who are genuinely kind and friendly toward the passengers, to those who will go out of their way to give someone a rough time.

But the BDOs seem to have been recruited with certain personality traits in mind. Hmmmm ... :confused:

Thank you for your service. While I haven't been deployed yet to OEF, my upcoming deployment won't be my first time to the rodeo...I've been in uniform, mostly within SOCOM, since 1989.

Which one? Might be hard to narrow it down since I've been to so many! The handle was meant to be facetious...evidently not quite as apparent as I thought. I won't post my name simply because of the occupation in which I'm currently engaged.

Thank you for the English lesson, Professor Paul. I guess you've been elected the forum spelling and grammer police. Brass ones? Well, you just keep flying those "sh*thooks" and I'll keep jumping out of 'em. Thanks for the transportation and hauling out the trash.

TB

"Men have discovered no technique for long preserving free government
except that the executive be under the law. "
Justice Robert H. Jackson
Source:Sam Ervin, The Whole Truth
http://home.att.net/~midnightflyer/supreme.html

This is not the quote I was looking for, but it makes the point well enough.
I will have to dig out my old con law notes.

When TSA policies convince otherwise law abiding citizens to engage in criminal behavior, it becomes harder for us to catch the rare real terrorist. This is a serious problem.

BDO job description: http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/getjob....&TabNum=2&rc=2

"Refers individuals for additional screening through, casual
conversation, selectee screening and/or LEO intervention."

"As assigned, may also be required to perform pre-board
security screening of persons, carry-on and checked baggage."

Translation: BDOs are not regular TSOs, but may be involved in screening functions. SPOT stands for Screening Passengers by Observation Technique.

I don't disagree. And, no, TSA does not provide training on exchange rates either.

any idea where those TSA rules are, TSA employee?
 

Spotnik, do you have any idea where the public can find such a list of the rules your agency imposes on us if we wish to avoid having our right to travel restricted? Surely this is a simple question to answer. Millions of people are required to follow these rules if they want to pass a U.S. government checkpoint in an airport. Haven't we published the rules that they must follow? If not, how can we expect them to follow the rules?

I don't necessarily agree that it's a laissez faire attitude we need. It isn't really about non-interference. I think security is very important, therefore I become upset by practices which distract TSA from it's security mission. TSA is here to keep airplanes from falling out of the sky or crashing into buildings. Anything that distracts TSA employees from that mission is unacceptable.

I also think that more TSA employees need to take the executive oath of office seriously. "I ... do solemnly swear to protect and defend the constitution of the United Stated against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and to faithfully execute the duties of the office to which I am appointed to the best of my ability."

That's close, if not exact. I couldn't find a decent reference easily. I don't trust Wikipedia.

I agree. Now we all just need to keep working my bosses over on this one.

The program has a very high washout rate, which starts with the application and interview process. I don't know if psychological profiling of applicants is done at any point in this process, but it wouldn't surprise me.

The personality type you describe ("bark commands at the passengers in a loud, angry voice") wouldn't usually be very successful as a BDO. BDOs have to get along with the people to be effective. If they approach the situation as the typical power tripping jerk, they will get a lot of "I don't have to talk to you." responses.

I have yet to get any info on the new training. If I get any info I am allowed to share, I will post it here.

So, no explanation, and added in to an unrelated topic. See why I think this agency needs more transparency?

Metal badges: An exciting new way for power-tripping idiots to get themselves fired! You know, I just changed my mind, this could be a good thing for TSA.

They can't send you to secondary for ignoring them. They can send you to secondary if you meet the SSI criteria to be sent to secondary. If you challenge them (call their superior), they also had best be able to justify their actions, too.

SPOT is pretty straight forward. The only consideration is "person displays behavior x" or "person does not display behavior x." Odd behavior that is not part of the program is irrelevant. A person's possible psychological disorder is also irrelevant.

I do not have a degree of any sort in psychology, just extra course work, as I said. I had advanced classes (undergrad/grad combo classes) in abnormal psychology and psychopathology which covered psychological disorders. I also had a criminal investigation course in the CJ school which covered some criminal psychology. At the time, I intended to be a cop, and I wanted to have some additional knowledge so as to avoid being in one of the "Cops gun down harmless mental patient" headlines.

At my level, just the standard clearance to handle SSI, SBU, or whatever else you want to call it. Involvement with the program does change your "need to know." I don't know if there is any higher requirements from the investigation than exists for the standard TSO.

I would have no way of knowing your security clearance if you are traveling as a regular passenger. I don't specifically have a problem with creating some additional allowances for passengers on official business with security clearances. Any time we create such allowances, however, we increase the opportunity for someone who has gotten through security checks, or someone who has been turned after passing said checks, to do serious damage. I do not have enough knowledge of higher level controls to know if such an allowance would constitute an unreasonable security risk. In other words, the issue is above both my pay grade and my security clearance.

Not sure I disagree. The latest ID requirements are pretty new, and I am willing to see if they offer a significant security benefit. I don't know how much security benefit we are actually getting when the blog suggests a Costco card as secondary ID. I also want to know if we can accomplish the same security objective with a means the is less restrictive of individual rights; selectee screening, perhaps?

Abusive, aloof screeners are unacceptable, no matter which screening function they fill.

I have yet to find anything decent on the TSA website or in any other official publication. There are a number of pieces of information at www.tsa.gov. There is also a legal post on the TSA blog that offers some information on the legal authority which guides TSA actions.

TSA has not made it simple or easy for people to get the information they need. They are getting better, mostly as a result of frustrated employees and local initiatives, but they are not yet where they need to be. This makes it extremely difficult for people to follow the rules. Many man hours are spent every day by the good employees in attempting to assist passengers handle a problem which resulted from not knowing the rules.

Hmmmm... maybe they could be analytical, multitaskers, and open minded?

Define noticeable behaviour. I wouldn't discriminate, though many would.

My brother has autism; if he flies, he takes Valium and he's fine.

It's a question. My answer would be "No, it doesn't matter" though I'm curious what type of "leeway" is given to officials/people you know, if any. Certainly some pleases are more lax than others.

Just goes to show the prejudice of TSA - and most people.

I'm quite speechless from this statement, and when I get the words, I'll refrain from saying them.

Thanks for keeping America - and its values - safe.

Sx displayed by the aforementioned could also be displayed by those "terrorists." You have no way of knowing; and you have to lean on the sign of caution --would you even believe somebody if they told you they had XYZ disability if you're interrogating them (only making their sx worse)?

You totally sidestepped my question, will refusing to engage smalltalk with a BDO, or anyone else in the line lead to a secondary? I get the feeling the government thinks 'normal citizen' means the silly chatty-cathy people and the rest of us have something to hide, so we warrent further searches.

Be as friendly as you like, you'll still get that response from me. Nothing personal.Don't believe it for a second. Again, nothing personal.

I'm not flying domestically any time soon, but I'm sure the first "I was SSSSed for ignoring a BDO" post won't be long coming.

There was evidence of this reported in the media a few years ago - I believe they found these arrangements at an airport or airports in California. We debated it here at the time. Just because you're not being offered incentive payments doesn't mean these arrangements don't exist between screeners and cops at other airports.

If it's in the SOP, I will deal with that soon enough. Once my group, with the help of our professional lobbyist partners, decapitates and finishes off SecureFlight, my next goal is getting us a copy of the TSA SOP and taking time to find this and other 'gems' we will use in our discussions with Congressional reps.

Yes, if they display a group of behaviors which look like behaviors which could be displayed by a terrorist, we will talk to them. The talk is supposed to have a friendly tone, and certainly should not feel like an interrogation. Yes, they will probably get worse, many people without psychological disorders also get worse when we talk with them. Most of the public seems to experience additional stress when selected for secondary screening. This is not unusual. If they display signs that they are not being truthful in the conversation, I will not believe them. If they do not display such signs, I will believe them.

Refusing to engage in smalltalk with a BDO, or anyone else, may not lead to a secondary. The only things which may lead to a secondary are the criteria outlined in the BDO and Checkpoint SOPs. Those criteria are SSI, so I cannot share them. I wish that I could, but I cannot. If you think that you were referred for secondary because you refused to talk to any TSA employee, pursue the issue immediately. If you are referred to secondary because you refused to talk to any TSA employee, the person who referred you violated SOP and the TSA civil rights policy.

I never take these things personally. I have also given many of my coworkers the "It's not against you, it's against the uniform." speech.

Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised to see a "SSSSed for ignoring a BDO" incident come up. That's why I've been suggesting that people pursue the issue if it does come up. These employees need to be revealed and properly dealt with.

Also, they really do hammer on the point in class that pax are not required to talk to us. I know it won't stop the rogue BDO or the rogue screener pretending to be a BDO.

Link, please, if you can find it. I would like to read more about this issue. I do hope that any employees involved in this arrangement found appropriate accommodations in the relevant department of corrections.

Good luck with your lobbying efforts. I will look forward to following the story as it proceeds.

Well, I'm certainly NOT talking to any BDO who is wearing rouge. :p

I am going to look for it...I recall it being part of a broadcast on one of those ABC newsmagazines.

Lol, The word was meant to be rogue. I will correct when I get home tonight.

Thank you. At the least, that gives me a place to start looking for myself.

This makes no sense. You guys have our boarding passes in your hands. Both before the WTMD and after. How is it you do not know the pax is not travelling internationally? Something doesn't smell right here.

Sorry that you would such a hard time believing that this could happen but I have encountered this twice in the passed year. One individual actually had a physical altercation with a police officer. Happens all the time to elderly parents, the children ship the parents off to another relative when they no longer can deal with them. Talk about values, its not the BDOs who are dropping these folks off at the curb and then driving off. More often than not BDOs can calm people down and reduce a pax stress level.

People will have involuntary reactions to fear or stress. These behaviors are multiplied by those who are trying to hide it. You can "SPOT" these pax very easliy.