FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Ask a SPOTnik (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/858086-ask-spotnik.html)

Ari Sep 10, 2008 9:40 am


Originally Posted by pmocek (Post 10344520)
It's dated February 22, 2002. It does not contain any of the words shoe, footwear, laptop, luggage, tool, liquid, gel, or boarding pass. The word identity is only used to refer to identities of aircraft, aircraft operators, government agents, job applicants, law enforcement officers, and prisoners.

I don't think this comes close to describing all the rules and regulations with which we are required to abide in order to avoid having our freedom of movement restricted by a TSA agent at one of TSA's airport checkpoints.

Agree. Too outdated to be useful.

spotnik Sep 10, 2008 8:37 pm

I understand the issue with the date. As I said, it seems to contain many of the rules that I understand to be currently in place. It is far from user friendly or complete, but it is a start. I will continue to research and post further information, if I find it.

In the meantime, here are some segments which I believe are relevant to issues raised on this thread. I am not a lawyer, so please do not take this as official legal advice.
Section 1540.109 is a new requirement prohibiting any person from interfering with, assaulting, threatening, or intimidating screening personnel in the performance of their screening duties.....

This rule does not prevent good-faith questions from individuals seeking to understand the screening of their persons or their property. But abusive, distracting behavior, and attempts to prevent screeners from performing required screening, are subject to civil penalties under this rule.
Title 49, United States Code, 46503, was added in ATSA to provide a criminal penalty for interfering with security personnel. Section 1540.109 permits TSA to seek a civil penalty for actions that may not warrant criminal prosecution under section 46503 but do warrant legal enforcement action.
Section 1540.101 regarding the carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals, is transferred from §§ 108.201(e) and (f),
108.203(e), and 129.27(a) and (b).
§ 1540.109 Prohibition against interference with screening personnel. No person may interfere with, assault, threaten, or intimidate screening personnel in the performance of their screening duties under this subchapter.
§ 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals.
(a) On an individual’s person or accessible property—prohibitions. Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, an individual may not have a weapon, explosive, or incendiary, on or about the individual’s person or accessible property—
(1) When performance has begun of the inspection of the individual’s person or accessible property before entering a sterile area;
(2) When the individual is entering or in a sterile area; or
(3) When the individual is attempting to board or onboard an aircraft for which screening is conducted under § 1544.201 or § 1546.201 of this chapter
§ 1544.201 Acceptance and screening of individuals and accessible property.
(a) Preventing or deterring the carriage of any explosive, incendiary, or deadly or dangerous weapon.
Each aircraft operator must use the measures in its security program to prevent or deter the carriage of any weapon, explosive, or incendiary on or about each individual’s person or accessible property before boarding an aircraft or entering a sterile area.
(b) Screening of individuals and accessible property.
Except as provided in its security program, each aircraft operator must ensure that each individual entering a sterile area at each preboard screening checkpoint for which it is responsible, and all accessible property under that individual’s control, are inspected for weapons, explosives, and incendiaries as provided in § 1544.207.
(c) Refusal to transport.
Each aircraft operator must deny entry into a sterile area and must refuse to transport—
(1) Any individual who does not consent to a search or inspection of his or her person in accordance with the system prescribed in this part; and
(2) Any property of any individual or other person who does not consent to a
search or inspection of that property in accordance with the system prescribed by this part.
§ 1544.207 Screening of individuals and property.
(a) Applicability of this section. This section applies to the inspection of
individuals, accessible property, checked baggage, and cargo as required under this part.
(b) Locations within the United States at which TSA conducts screening. Each aircraft operator must ensure that the individuals or property have been inspected by TSA before boarding or loading on its aircraft. This paragraph applies when TSA is conducting screening using TSA employees or
when using companies under contract with TSA.

tsadude1 Sep 29, 2008 3:03 pm

here's some interesting reading

http://www.soc.umn.edu/~samaha/cases...0v%20ohio.html

Boggie Dog Oct 9, 2008 11:15 am


Originally Posted by spotnik (Post 10241752)
Hello everyone,

I am a BDO, I have been reading your forum for some time, and have finally been inspired by your open hostility and derision. I will attempt to answer any questions or concerns you pose me, and we'll all see how long I keep my job.

I am not an official TSA spokesperson, and am not authorized to take this action, although I view talking with the public and attempting to answer questions to be part of my official job duties. I am, however, doing this all on my own time, so please understand if I am not as quick with the responses as you might like.


If you BDO's are so adept at noting people who may be up to no good then how come you never catch your fellow TSO's who are stealing from travelers?

My question is not flippant, surely a rouge TSO will display some of these markers you guys are on the look out for. A bad guy is a bad guy, no matter how dressed!

TheRoadie Oct 9, 2008 12:13 pm

Insightful question. And there are a thousand times as many rogue TSOs as terrorists to interact with every day. The answer probably is that they're outwards looking. And a TSO wouldn't be intimidated into engaging in BDO small talk the way flyers are.

giunbones Oct 10, 2008 3:16 am

passenger manifest data
 
Hello

I don't know if this is the right place to ask---but do you know if it's possible to obtain passnger manigest information for a spcific flight (Lufthansa by the way)??
I can tell you (perhaps privately) why I need this if necessary...

Thanks

speedster1978 Oct 13, 2008 1:26 pm

Curious from a BDO's perspective how you would take this...

I'm quite a large man, at 6'5" and 300 pounds, look like a linebacker walking through the airport, with my laptop backpack on and what not.

I get overheated quite easily, and normally after walking from my rental car all the way to the rental car counter, then walk to the ticketing counter, then to the security line, I'll have broken out in a light to medium sweat.

Once I get to my gate, and sit down, I'll cool off pretty quickly, but of course, going from rental car, to ticketing, to security, I'm non-stop, so don't cool off.

Would this sweating cause me to get extra attention from a BDO, wondering if I was nervous about my flight, or if something was wrong, to have me stand out as a potential terrorist, and as a result, cause more screening then necessary, all due to a medical condition that I can not control?

coachrowsey Jan 13, 2009 9:59 am

Here in CLT the spots walk up & down the main lobby in front of the ticket counter talking to each other. They are not at the checkpoint. What are they doing ?

spotnik Jan 13, 2009 10:36 pm

Sorry, I've been away for a while.


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 10494251)
If you BDO's are so adept at noting people who may be up to no good then how come you never catch your fellow TSO's who are stealing from travelers?

My question is not flippant, surely a rouge TSO will display some of these markers you guys are on the look out for. A bad guy is a bad guy, no matter how dressed!

Well, the specifics of what BDOs catch, or don't catch, are all considered SSI. I'm afraid any honest answer to your question might run me afoul of the SSI gurus.


Originally Posted by TheRoadie (Post 10494636)
Insightful question. And there are a thousand times as many rogue TSOs as terrorists to interact with every day. The answer probably is that they're outwards looking. And a TSO wouldn't be intimidated into engaging in BDO small talk the way flyers are.

Yours are also some insightful observations, although we do try to avoid intimidating passengers into speaking with us. Sorry I can't say more.


Originally Posted by giunbones (Post 10498330)
Hello

I don't know if this is the right place to ask---but do you know if it's possible to obtain passnger manigest information for a spcific flight (Lufthansa by the way)??
I can tell you (perhaps privately) why I need this if necessary...

Thanks

You're probably quite a ways out of my expertise, but if you want to PM me, I will help you if I can. This sounds like something that would need to be handled through the airline, probably with the help of a lawyer.


Originally Posted by speedster1978 (Post 10513705)
Curious from a BDO's perspective how you would take this...

I'm quite a large man, at 6'5" and 300 pounds, look like a linebacker walking through the airport, with my laptop backpack on and what not.

I get overheated quite easily, and normally after walking from my rental car all the way to the rental car counter, then walk to the ticketing counter, then to the security line, I'll have broken out in a light to medium sweat.

Once I get to my gate, and sit down, I'll cool off pretty quickly, but of course, going from rental car, to ticketing, to security, I'm non-stop, so don't cool off.

Would this sweating cause me to get extra attention from a BDO, wondering if I was nervous about my flight, or if something was wrong, to have me stand out as a potential terrorist, and as a result, cause more screening then necessary, all due to a medical condition that I can not control?

You sound like a pretty typical passenger to me. As I stated earlier on this thread, BDOs look for groups of behaviors. I can't comment on the specifics of what might cause a BDO referral.


Originally Posted by coachrowsey (Post 11067186)
Here in CLT the spots walk up & down the main lobby in front of the ticket counter talking to each other. They are not at the checkpoint. What are they doing ?

I would guess they are screening potential passenger using observation techniques. :p
It's not unusual for BDOs to be in areas other than the checkpoints. It's also not unusual for BDOs to talk to one another. If there's anything more to it than that, I'm don't have the need to know.

coachrowsey Jan 14, 2009 9:12 am

I would guess they are screening potential passenger using observation techniques. :p
.[/QUOTE]


If they are doing that they are the best there is:D I watch them & they aren't even looking at people. Now there's this one female spot who always stops to talk to me & it's not about security:D:D

spotnik Jan 14, 2009 8:32 pm


Originally Posted by coachrowsey (Post 11074097)
If they are doing that they are the best there is:D I watch them & they aren't even looking at people. Now there's this one female spot who always stops to talk to me & it's not about security:D:D

Well, if some people seem to think that SPOT training gives us magical telepathic powers. Maybe they were using those? ;)
(These are not the terrorists you are looking for...)

I've gotten to know some of the regular travelers at my airport as well. It's a one of my favorite benefits of the job. People are endlessly fascinating, and it is part of my job to talk to people in the airport, help solve problems, and generally make travel easier and more pleasant for passengers.
(Come to think of it, this might be a good job for OOTPYLTH.)

ClueByFour Jan 15, 2009 12:49 pm


Originally Posted by spotnik (Post 11078493)
Well, if some people seem to think that SPOT training gives us magical telepathic powers.

Nobody outside DHS has ever had that thought. Ever.

oneofthosepeopleyouloveto hate Jan 15, 2009 2:37 pm


I've gotten to know some of the regular travelers at my airport as well. It's a one of my favorite benefits of the job. People are endlessly fascinating, and it is part of my job to talk to people in the airport, help solve problems, and generally make travel easier and more pleasant for passengers.
(Come to think of it, this might be a good job for OOTPYLTH.)
Thank you! :)

However ... the BDOs at my airport generally stand in one spot for long periods of time. I'm not sure I could handle that ... I'm one of those types who have to be moving around or doing something constantly. (An office job would be akin to torture for me! Actually, one of the things I like about working for the TSA is that it's moderately physical.)

Also, our BDOs usually don't talk or interact with passengers unless they're interrogating them, and when they do, it's in an aggressive manner. It seems the unfriendliest screeners are promoted to BDO, and I'm not sure that's a coincidence! At least where I work, they seem to be looking for a certain "type," and I don't think I'd fit the profile, or fit in with the others. (Yikes!)

Boggie Dog Jan 15, 2009 3:22 pm


Originally Posted by oneofthosepeopleyouloveto hate (Post 11083465)
Thank you! :)

However ... the BDOs at my airport generally stand in one spot for long periods of time.

Also, our BDOs usually don't talk or interact with passengers unless they're interrogating them, and when they do, it's in an aggressive manner. It seems the unfriendliest screeners are promoted to BDO, and I'm not sure that's a coincidence!


I wonder if these traits are common across the country?

How does TSA expect to gain any respect if this is how their employees are seen by other TSA workers?

How do you think it comes across to the average traveler who sees this type of behavior from TSA employees?

I think your post is a strong argument for a total rebuild of TSA.

oneofthosepeopleyouloveto hate Jan 15, 2009 3:45 pm


I wonder if these traits are common across the country?
I have no idea! But it sounds as if things are different where Spotnik works ...

It's also possible that I'm slightly paranoid. :)


I think your post is a strong argument for a total rebuild of TSA.
Well, how many times are we going to reinvent the wheel? And how many times should the taxpayers have to pay for this reinvention?

We already did it once, after 9-11 ... although in truth, many people who already were working as airline screeners simply received a new uniform and a hefty raise in pay!


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 3:27 am.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.