RgnadKzin

That's exactly my point. I am required to follow the written law, and not some "commonly accepted practice." Following the law and forcing those enforcing the law to observe the laws that they enforce is the only way to stop this encroachment of our rights. If you have rights, you can't just do lip service to them when it is convenient and forget about them when it is not convenient. The system is wrong. The system is corrupt. The system is lawless. I am only doing my part to put them back into that box defined by the constitution. You can thank me later, after you consider that the only thing between the state and your rights appears to be me and my ilk.

I am not crazy to insist that the written law be observed by those who presume to enforce it. If I were to allow any tin dictator to tell me what "laws" I will follow, even when there is no such law, then I become lawless because I allow lawless behavior on the part of those imposing the "law." Is that the kind of society in which we want to live? Sorry, that's not for me. Either they can show me the law and show me how it applies to me, or they can take their "commonly accepted practices" and shove them where the sun don't shine.

I don't believe I am breaking any laws, and have yet to be convicted of any such offense. I have posted on this previously. I am no threat to you and yours.

I have not done so, and probably will not do so, now that they have started chipping passports. I have toyed with the idea of getting the secretary of state for my state to provide appropriate "travel documentation," but have as yet not done so.

22wingit

I was merely pointing out that for most Americans who are not ... um ... "different", tax law constitutes an important reason for a child to have an SSN. With all due respect, you may consider something over $8K per year to be a pittance, but I do not. Of course, I'm OK with paying my fair share of taxes, so we disagree on that as well.

(I'm guessing that RgnadKzin probably doesn't consider US currency to be legal tender, either, so that may be just as moot a point as the first.)

RgnadKzin

All of the contracts of carriage refer to "positive" identification, not "government-issued" identification. They also state that you can be refused boarding for "refusing" to show identification. I do not refuse to show ID. I don't have the ID that they want me to show. I used to travel showing my Sam's Club card (it had my picture and name upon it). I offer them what I have, and if they don't like it, then they will subject me to secondary screening. I can still have an effect upon the people that I encounter by "educating" them on what the laws say and make them think about the laws that they are trying to enforce.

All of the "terrorists" involved in 9/11 had ID. Making sure that everyone has ID will not make you safe. There is no way to guarantee safety. Safety is an illusion. I prefer to have my rights. Perhaps you disagree. But living in a constitutional republic means that 1% of the people can tell the other 99% of the people to piss off. That's what I do, but I do it in a bit less vulgar manner.

Travellin' Fool

oh God, i've just stepped into the realm of alien abductions and government conspiricies. Seriously, you scare me. People arguing why they shouldn't have ID's?? SSN's??? ...!!! Are you kidding me???

RgnadKzin

I thank you for your kind restraint.

I pay all taxes for which I am liable.

Imposing "legal tender" status on valueless paper does not make it money.

The holding case on legal tender is Julliard v. Greenman,110 U.S. 421 (1884). The premise behind Juilliard is that legal tender notes are lawful so long as they can be redeemed for lawful money. FRNs have not been redeemable in lawful money since the mid-60's, so the question becomes whether they are in fact a promise to pay anyone anything at all. See Field's dissent:
12 USC 152 says, �The terms �lawful money� and �lawful money of the United States� shall be construed to mean gold and silver coin of the United States.�

12 USC 411 says, "Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank."

I suggest you try to redeem your federal reserve notes at the Chicago FRB and Richmond FRB as I have. They will not redeem them.

Recently, the Fed has stopped reporting M3, the amount of federal reserve notes in circulation. Wonder why? Could it be that they don't want it reported that the printing presses are working overtime to fund the [Forever] War?

venice4504

Ok so without a SSN you can't get a credit card. Right? Can you get a checking account? I am so confused. I know that my landlord would get mightly suspicious if I just started paying him in hundreds and I wasn't able to give a credit history to buy or rent anything. This is really odd.

GUWonder

There's that Taxpayer Identification number (TIN)-route, although who knows if its applicable here.

Travellin' Fool

Yes!!! That's it!!!

You obviously know nothing about economics.

uastarflyer

I believe I have a right to a passport and SSN and tax deductions, and I take advantage of all the above.

I would agree with your belief.

Of course. In the meantime she'll enjoy being a kid and travelling the world because she has a passport and God forbid - a FF ID card

RgnadKzin

I am unable to acquire "credit," but frankly, I find it self destructive if I were to do so. It is mathematically impossible to pay it off.

I can get checking accounts. The old regulations [31 CFR 103.34(a)] stated that the bank need only maintain a list of names and account numbers for non-enumerated customers. The PATRIOT Act regulations are found at 31 CFR 103.120 &seq. These regulations provide that there be a "Customer Identification Program" to ensure that the people that open new accounts are who they say they are. While a taxpayer ID number is one of the ways to secure this identification, there have to be "alternative means" provided in the bank's plan. In my situation, showing them a bank statement from another bank account generally suffices.

I pay all of my debts using money orders.

I recently settled a fair housing complaint where the management company refused to process my application without an SSAN. After deposing the service that they use for verifying background information, it was found that they did not need an SSAN to call my former landlords to determine payment history or other information relevant to determinine whether I am a good tenant.

22wingit

It appears that I guessed correctly.

RgnadKzin

I thank you kindly for your ad hominem attack which lends nothing to the discussion. I am sure that you will be willing to "educate" me on the economics of creating a monetary system based upon credit that is mathematically impossible to repay.

Travellin' Fool

ad hominem? I wasn't attacking you i was attacking the information you presented which is incorrect. THAT lends to the discussion.

RgnadKzin

Forgive me for my misunderstanding that "You obviously know nothing about economics." is not an attack on the messenger. However, the message remains the same. Either it is economically feasible to create money that never existed forever, or it comes to a grinding halt at some point in time. My training is in physics and the premise that forms of energy cannot be created, only changed in form, colors my view of monetary policy. Am I incorrect in assuming that one can only loan out money that already exists?

Oh, I forgot that banks can loan currency into circulation at interest where neither the principle nor the interest ever existed. In such a case, where exactly does the money come from to repay the interest? If there is insufficient currency in circulation to repay the interest, then perhaps we just borrow the interest (at interest) in order to repay the original loan. Drat--we don't have the money to repay the interest assessed upon the loan to repay the interest. It thereby becomes mathematically impossible to repay the loan.

But, I might be wrong.

RgnadKzin

We both have FF ID cards. Only the TSA does not find that as an acceptable substitute for "government-issued" ID.