View Poll Results: Do you agree or disagree with the action undertaken by MKEbound?
Agree
766
75.92%
Disagree
144
14.27%
Neither agree nor disagree
75
7.43%
Not sure
24
2.38%
Voters: 1009. You may not vote on this poll
I was detained at the TSA checkpoint for about 25 minutes today
Sep 28, 2006, 2:29 pm
#451
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Originally Posted by tom911
Don't you find it interesting that not one person in this thread has stated they're going to mark their clear plastic bag the same way and see what happens? Are you planning on marking your bags the same as the OP to see what happens (I'm not)?
I asked if anyone was going to mark their zip-loc bag in the same manner as the OP a hundred or so posts ago. No one seems interested in causing a scene, but I'm particularly p.o.'d this afternoon, so I borrowed a Sharpie pen and labeled my ziploc bag with the words "Israel + America = The Axis of Murder" (in English and Arabic). I'm on my way to ORD right now so I'll let you know what happens when I get to sunny Guantanamo.
Sep 28, 2006, 2:32 pm
#452
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alameda, CA, USA
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Originally Posted by tom911
Don't you find it interesting that not one person in this thread has stated they're going to mark their clear plastic bag the same way and see what happens? Are you planning on marking your bags the same as the OP to see what happens (I'm not)?
Sep 28, 2006, 2:37 pm
#453
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Originally Posted by PhlyingRPh
I asked if anyone was going to mark their zip-loc bag in the same manner as the OP a hundred or so posts ago. No one seems interested in causing a scene, but I'm particularly p.o.'d this afternoon, so I borrowed a Sharpie pen and labeled my ziploc bag with the words "Israel + America = The Axis of Murder" (in English and Arabic). I'm on my way to ORD right now so I'll let you know what happens when I get to sunny Guantanamo.
As it seems that the EU is going to adopt the plastic bag-related rules geographic variations of this exercise should be interesting.
Last edited by GUWonder; Sep 28, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Sep 28, 2006, 2:44 pm
#454
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
(i.e., Sudan should be part of that "Axis") but you have a right to write it.
Sep 28, 2006, 2:51 pm
#455
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,062
Originally Posted by crhptic
Is this truly a part of your training? No wonder. I guess just like the First Amendment, the presumption of innocence doesn't apply at checkpoints either. 
Imagine how the police would be if they were trained to suspect that everyone is a criminal. Explains a lot of the TSA foolishness, doesn't it?
Imagine how the police would be if they were trained to suspect that everyone is a criminal. Explains a lot of the TSA foolishness, doesn't it?
To my knowledge the presumption of innoncence only applies once someone has been charged with crime, which clearly this person wasn't. Every person who walks through that security checkpoint should be treated as a possible terrorist.. If you don't like that take the Greyhound or buy your own plane.
Sep 28, 2006, 2:55 pm
#456
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Originally Posted by cme2c
No my training is how to remove cataracts.
To my knowledge the presumption of innoncence only applies once someone has been charged with crime, which clearly this person wasn't. Every person who walks through that security checkpoint should be treated as a possible terrorist.. If you don't like that take the Greyhound or buy your own plane.
To my knowledge the presumption of innoncence only applies once someone has been charged with crime, which clearly this person wasn't. Every person who walks through that security checkpoint should be treated as a possible terrorist.. If you don't like that take the Greyhound or buy your own plane.
Sep 28, 2006, 2:57 pm
#457
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Washington DC USA
Posts: 2,571
Originally Posted by cme2c
No my training is how to remove cataracts.
To my knowledge the presumption of innoncence only applies once someone has been charged with crime, which clearly this person wasn't. Every person who walks through that security checkpoint should be treated as a possible terrorist.. If you don't like that take the Greyhound or buy your own plane.
To my knowledge the presumption of innoncence only applies once someone has been charged with crime, which clearly this person wasn't. Every person who walks through that security checkpoint should be treated as a possible terrorist.. If you don't like that take the Greyhound or buy your own plane.
OT: I think it's hilarious how you even managed to fit a variant of DY...T into a freakin' Flyertalk post!!
Sep 28, 2006, 2:58 pm
#458
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Beacon Falls, CT, USA
Posts: 1,609
Why does this remind me of the scene in "Alice's Restaurant" where Arlo Guthrie urged everyone to sing "You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant" as they go through draft processing? One person is an idiot, two is a conspiracy, 50 is a movement, or something like that.
Not that I disagree in the slightest. The OP has every right to what he did, and the TSO was as much an idiot for taking the bait as Kip Hawley is
RE: the "yelling 'fire' in a theatre" - it's an obvious example, so everyone uses it. However, just because something doesn't incite a riot or endanger folk, doesn't mean it's acceptable. Here's an example:
Our local Renaissance Festival is not very large (maybe 200 vendors). However, we are a small city and my husband is among those who feel responsible for the general feel of the festival, as he is one of the performers. He is also trained in security, having worked it for many years. One day at the festival, a young man showed up with a highly offensive t-shirt, and was asked by my husband (and several friends) to either turn it inside out, change it, or please leave. It was not done with intimidation, but was done firmly. The guy did, after some posturing. The t-shirt said "Jesus is a C###" (think of the most offensive word that would fit there). Now, I'm not Christian, and many that attend Ren Faires aren't either. However, this is, I would venture to say, offensive to more than just Christians. Asking him to remove it from view (children were around everywhere, of course) was, IMHO, a responsible act.
How does this work with freedom of speech? Opinions? OT I know, but I'm curious.
Not that I disagree in the slightest. The OP has every right to what he did, and the TSO was as much an idiot for taking the bait as Kip Hawley is
RE: the "yelling 'fire' in a theatre" - it's an obvious example, so everyone uses it. However, just because something doesn't incite a riot or endanger folk, doesn't mean it's acceptable. Here's an example:
Our local Renaissance Festival is not very large (maybe 200 vendors). However, we are a small city and my husband is among those who feel responsible for the general feel of the festival, as he is one of the performers. He is also trained in security, having worked it for many years. One day at the festival, a young man showed up with a highly offensive t-shirt, and was asked by my husband (and several friends) to either turn it inside out, change it, or please leave. It was not done with intimidation, but was done firmly. The guy did, after some posturing. The t-shirt said "Jesus is a C###" (think of the most offensive word that would fit there). Now, I'm not Christian, and many that attend Ren Faires aren't either. However, this is, I would venture to say, offensive to more than just Christians. Asking him to remove it from view (children were around everywhere, of course) was, IMHO, a responsible act.
How does this work with freedom of speech? Opinions? OT I know, but I'm curious.
Sep 28, 2006, 3:03 pm
#459
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Originally Posted by Jakebeth
So tell me this, what terrorist is going to be stupid enough to draw attention to himself by writing Kip Hawley's an idiot on his baggie?
Sep 28, 2006, 3:13 pm
#460
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,062
Originally Posted by Jakebeth
So tell me this, what terrorist is going to be stupid enough to draw attention to himself by writing Kip Hawley's an idiot on his baggie?
What terrorist is dumb enough to write "bomb on board"? , so by that logic if someone finds a note like that on the plane they should ignore it? There are plenty of stupid terrorists. Although, you're right, I'm not so concerned about them.
Sep 28, 2006, 3:13 pm
#461
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Originally Posted by Green Dragon
Why does this remind me of the scene in "Alice's Restaurant" where Arlo Guthrie urged everyone to sing "You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant" as they go through draft processing? One person is an idiot, two is a conspiracy, 50 is a movement, or something like that.
Not that I disagree in the slightest. The OP has every right to what he did, and the TSO was as much an idiot for taking the bait as Kip Hawley is
RE: the "yelling 'fire' in a theatre" - it's an obvious example, so everyone uses it. However, just because something doesn't incite a riot or endanger folk, doesn't mean it's acceptable. Here's an example:
Our local Renaissance Festival is not very large (maybe 200 vendors). However, we are a small city and my husband is among those who feel responsible for the general feel of the festival, as he is one of the performers. He is also trained in security, having worked it for many years. One day at the festival, a young man showed up with a highly offensive t-shirt, and was asked by my husband (and several friends) to either turn it inside out, change it, or please leave. It was not done with intimidation, but was done firmly. The guy did, after some posturing. The t-shirt said "Jesus is a C###" (think of the most offensive word that would fit there). Now, I'm not Christian, and many that attend Ren Faires aren't either. However, this is, I would venture to say, offensive to more than just Christians. Asking him to remove it from view (children were around everywhere, of course) was, IMHO, a responsible act.
How does this work with freedom of speech? Opinions? OT I know, but I'm curious.
Not that I disagree in the slightest. The OP has every right to what he did, and the TSO was as much an idiot for taking the bait as Kip Hawley is
RE: the "yelling 'fire' in a theatre" - it's an obvious example, so everyone uses it. However, just because something doesn't incite a riot or endanger folk, doesn't mean it's acceptable. Here's an example:
Our local Renaissance Festival is not very large (maybe 200 vendors). However, we are a small city and my husband is among those who feel responsible for the general feel of the festival, as he is one of the performers. He is also trained in security, having worked it for many years. One day at the festival, a young man showed up with a highly offensive t-shirt, and was asked by my husband (and several friends) to either turn it inside out, change it, or please leave. It was not done with intimidation, but was done firmly. The guy did, after some posturing. The t-shirt said "Jesus is a C###" (think of the most offensive word that would fit there). Now, I'm not Christian, and many that attend Ren Faires aren't either. However, this is, I would venture to say, offensive to more than just Christians. Asking him to remove it from view (children were around everywhere, of course) was, IMHO, a responsible act.
How does this work with freedom of speech? Opinions? OT I know, but I'm curious.
Sep 28, 2006, 3:14 pm
#462
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Originally Posted by Green Dragon
Our local Renaissance Festival is not very large (maybe 200 vendors). However, we are a small city and my husband is among those who feel responsible for the general feel of the festival, as he is one of the performers. He is also trained in security, having worked it for many years. One day at the festival, a young man showed up with a highly offensive t-shirt, and was asked by my husband (and several friends) to either turn it inside out, change it, or please leave. It was not done with intimidation, but was done firmly. The guy did, after some posturing. The t-shirt said "Jesus is a C###" (think of the most offensive word that would fit there). Now, I'm not Christian, and many that attend Ren Faires aren't either. However, this is, I would venture to say, offensive to more than just Christians. Asking him to remove it from view (children were around everywhere, of course) was, IMHO, a responsible act.
How does this work with freedom of speech? Opinions? OT I know, but I'm curious.
Sep 28, 2006, 3:17 pm
#463
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,062
Originally Posted by crhptic
Your original words were that you are trained to "suspect everyone is a terrorist". That is very different from treating people as a possible terrorist. Which is it?
OT: I think it's hilarious how you even managed to fit a variant of DY...T into a freakin' Flyertalk post!!
OT: I think it's hilarious how you even managed to fit a variant of DY...T into a freakin' Flyertalk post!!
I don't see a lot of difference in those statements. Suspect already implies possible. If I had used "assume" everyone is a terrorist that would be different.
Sep 28, 2006, 3:18 pm
#464
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Originally Posted by cme2c
What terrorist is dumb enough to write "bomb on board"? , so by that logic if someone finds a note like that on the plane they should ignore it? There are plenty of stupid terrorists. Although, you're right, I'm not so concerned about them.
Sep 28, 2006, 3:23 pm
#465
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,062
Originally Posted by GUWonder
"Bomb on board" is not necessarily constitutionally-protected speech. "Kip Hawley is an idiot" is constitutionally-protected speech. Let's not equate the two. It's pretty simple: "Bomb on board" and "Kip Hawley is an idiot" are not equivalents.