Solid vs. Gel deodorant difference
 

Solid ones are a single piece, with a plastic screw stick through the center to advance the remaining deodorant forward as necessary.
Gel ones have a solid plastic "grid" at the top; the gel oozes through there when the deodorant-advance mechanism is deployed.

For example, and this is strictly an example and NOT an indication of any real changes, I am using this to illustrate as an example of how these changes may occur: a tube of Desenex may be allowed if the passenger is flying with infant in arms and all of the usual baby-carrying paraphernalia. However, a passenger who has a tube of Desenex but isn't flying with an infant may be offered the option of either packing that tube in checked luggage or abandoning it at the checkpoint. In one case, it's obvious that a baby in diapers with a rash will require this sort of medication, whereas the passenger traveling without an infant may not.


Thanks for all your informative posts, Bart. Please note, however, that Desenex is for those of us who've contracted athletes foot from walking barefoot through the checkpoints. It's Desitin that's for the baby's behind. :)

Allow me to explain a little more on this. I was looking back a while ago at possibly using the health code as a way to shut down the shoe carnival. I had figured that if there was a violation of a state's health code by requiring people to go barefoot, then in order for the shoe carnival to last, it would require specific legislation to be enacted either on the state or federal level to reverse the health code violaion. In essence I was hoping that I could get the health departments to order an end to the "unsanitary" condition.

Well researching though every states health code and a number of websites dedicated to people who like to walk barefoot, I discovered that there is no state health department requlation requiring that persons wear shoes anywhere. The only place where shoes are required by code is in the food service industry and the regulation only applies to the staff and not the patrons.

Many establishments, both public and private, however, require that their patrons wear shoes. This requirement does not come from any official legal statutes, but comes from internal policies or regulations. So in your case the requiring of shoes in public buildings most likely comes from internal policy, (the policy itself may come from the health department). If it came from force of law then it would extend to private establishments as well. So at the checkpoint all that is required is a minor change of internal policy to permit barefeet at the checkpoint.

Bart... Thanks for all you've been giving back to us and helping us understand the changes that are happening everyday....

Question on shoes... my girlfriend usually wears beach flip-flops and we are travelling this weekend... will she have to take them off or are those allowed through the WTMD ?

Appreciate the feedback...

Shoes and puffer
 

Went throught the puffer two weeks ago, my first time, and shoes did not have to be removed.

But that was two weeks ago. Doesn't count. Sorry. :(

Exactly. I've actually begun to enjoy flying out of DEN lately with the puffers there.

Until "Black Thursday."

Question still stands: does anyone know if puffer usage still exempts one from the shoe nonsense?

Deleted

Any mention of screeners that may be saying to themselves "I'll just let that go" (i.e., this ban is so stupid and I really don't think this object/person is a threat to the plane) when it comes to liquids/gels that are techincally banned now?

Deleted

Bart - do people have the option of sitting down and removing their shoes and not having to walk on those disgusting floors?

Not trying to hijack the thread but I can resist commenting on the barefeet thing.
Maybe it doesn't directly come from legal statutes but it does come indirectly. I doubt seriously if 7-11 is such a classy place that they don't want patrons having to suffer from seeing others without shoes or shirts. Their liablility carriers demand that they post the "no shirt no shoes no service" sign. If the business does not comply then the insurance carrier drops their coverage and notifies the state. Then the sheriff comes and locks the door because the law says that to have a business license there has to be liability coverage.

So indirectly the "shoes required" rule is actually a "shoes required for insurance purposes" policy that is enforced by tax-dollar-paid law enforcement officers.

Hello all! I'm new to Flyertalk and have been greatly encouraged by the overwhelming logic and outrage demonstrated by most people here regarding the new airline security policies. After reading other boards I was starting to think maybe I was the only one to think that TSA has once again gone mad.

Unfortunately, I don't see the mandatory shoe x-ray policy changing in the foreseeable future. I used to carry flip-flops to wear through screening because I too have concerns about hygiene. Now, I've ordered a box of those paper foot covers that surgeons wear to put over my socks - then throw away after I put my shoes back on. Likewise, I've ordered powdered toothpaste, powdered mouthwash, tiny, single-use eyedrop vials and water purification tablets. I am currently trying to figure out how to "smuggle" onboard a small amount of hand lotion and anti-bacterial gel.

Many I've seen on other boards like Fodors ask what the big deal is to simply check toiletries and reclaim them after the flight. For me, the issue is to have the toiletries to see to my health and hygiene during the flight - surprising how many people miss this point. Makes me wonder about their hygiene.

Anyone have any experiences to share regarding perscription OTC meds like Afrin? That's a necessity for me when I fly if I want to breathe - my doctor will write a perscription but I'm concerned that my ability to breathe will be arbitrarily determined by some TSA agent on a power trip.

As far as the policies themselves are concerned, may I suggest that anyone who is concerned about the current restrictionscomplain rigorously to the TSA and the Department of Homeland Security? Both have the "Contact Us" forms on their website - I've already sent my missives to both, not that I expect a response. But both of these agencies are - ultimately - run by politicians, so public opinion does count. In the meantime, money talks. If airlines feel the pinch you can bet they'll put pressure on TSA as well.

I am an American who works in Rome part off the year. I'm stuck on an airplane this fall, but in the spring I'm looking at transatlantic oceanliners. Not an option for everyone, I know, but if you have the time it may be an alternative...

Thanks to all for your input and opinions...a wonderful site with wonderful people!

Welcome to Flyertalk. :)

I wouldn't get your hopes up about ship travel; by next Spring, the Queen Mary II might feature the same insanity we see at the airports.

Deleted

Deleted

Something is going to have to be done about this policy long term. Even if there are exceptions for those with major disabilities, it's not enough. It's no big deal physically for me to take off my shoes at the checkpiont, but I'm under 30.

On Monday I had the displeasure of watching my mother, her three siblings, and their various spouses go through security at MSP. They are all in their 50s and 60s and in decent health, but there was obvious discomfort and trouble at going through the motions of removing and putting-on shoes without the aid of a chair or something to lean on. Previously they would have had the option at most airports of keeping their shoes, going to a post-WTMD chair, removing them, and then having them x-rayed or swabbed. :mad:

These otherwise healthy people should not have to resort to sitting in wheelchairs to be able to travel without substantial discomfort.

all and very good, but
 

Bart, some of us can't put on socks while standing up! At DFW there are few to no chairs for use while taking off your shoes. DFW does have paper booties for us to use, but getting them on is a real trial for many people.

The pressure of passengers behind you in the line to hurry up is also a factor. Often there is crowding and pushing.

If the shoe carnival is to be mandatory then I think TSA assistance in putting the shoes back on for those of us that have trouble should be mandatory. We can get you guys those stools with the ramp on them. :)

thank you for the clairfication and all of the other feedback in this thread ^ but if i can ask for some additonal insight on shoes....

i wear custom orthotics and orthopedic shoes/sneakers and it is extremely difficult, painfull and time consuming (30 minutes+) to remove /replace my shoes and where the tsa websites says all shoes must be removed or you won't be able to board your flight yet under the TSA website section for Orthopedic Shoes, Support Appliances, and Other Exterior Medical Devices it is stated:

Tell the Security Officer if you are wearing orthopedic shoes, support appliances, or other exterior medical devices and where they are located.

If you are wearing an exterior medical device and are uncomfortable with going through the metal detector or being hand-wand inspected, ask the security officer to give you a pat-down inspection and to visually inspect your device instead.

You should be offered a private screening if you will need to lift any clothing to complete the inspection process.

Security Oficers should not ask you to remove your orthopedic shoes, appliances, or medical device (insulin pump, feeding tube, ostomy or urine bag, or exterior component of cochlear implant) at any time during the screening process.

this is where i'm confused and wondering if you've expereinced this at your checkpoint and how it is handled both on your end and by the pax. prior to all the changes, if i was asked to remove my shoes, i simply mentioned my medical situation and i was swabbed after the wtmd and that was it or i used "the puffer". with this still work or am i gonna be given a hard time? thanks for your insight and enjoy your day off! :)

Welcome to Flyer Talk! Great first post!

I share your concerns. I travel from LAX to FCO 3 times a year and I need to have certain items to make these flying times bearable! It seems that most people posting are coming up with ideas for simple transcontinental flights, but what about my route (connecting in JFK). I just added up the hours of the total amount of time that I'll be parted from my checked luggage and it comes to 19 hours on the outbound and 22 hours on the return. I need certain items to make these FLIGHTS bearable.

[rant/on - my personal beef] I'm a middle aged woman who uses a whole arsenal of eye creams, face creams, hand lotion - etc. And over the years I've made myself comfortable flying by using Afrin to keep my ears from hurting during descent, Ayr Nasal Saline gel to keep my nose from drying out and to keep out some airborne bacteria, natural tears, Purell to use FREQUENTLY, followed by hand cream to, again, avoid bacteria. I'd have toothpaste and mouthwash to use on board. And I'd bring Olay facial clothes to cleanse followed by all the above mentioned lotions. My trips are leisure and they're what gives my life joy. I haven't checked bags in 4 years and was able to avoid all its related aggravation. I'm REALLY annoyed with the reactive TSA and can't understand why the U.S. can't learn from the Israelis. [rant/off]

But getting back to this particular thread - which I'm now totally off topic. But thanks Bart and to everyone for your posts. And please forgive, I don't even have a question for Bart -

I've actually got a question for galileosdaughter1! (and thanks again for your post). I'm replying to your quote to ask you where you found the foot covers... I've been looking for those for some time. Can you share your source?

Thanks in advance (and I apologize for not picking a more appropriate thread for my hissyfit).

Well, unless you've got a disability that restricts your movement, a sink is a sink, and last I checked, there are plenty of them in the airside restrooms. If you really want to wash your feet, go right ahead.

It is now a societal norm to wash one's hands frequently because our hands come into frequent contact with our body orifices. There is no need to wash your feet for that reason, unless you are in the habit of sticking your feet in your mouth (or somewhere else that I cannot politely name.) For the most part, we keep our feet clean for aesthetic reasons, not because doing so impedes the spread of disease.

Hello sk3!
I ordered the booties from www.gss-store.com. Unfortunately the shipping costs more than the product, but all in all 100 booties cost about $10.50. I just looked up "shoe-covers" on google.com and found several medical supply companies.

If you find powdered lotion or an anti-bacterial product, let me know! :)

Actually, Bart, it wasn't a pilot, it was a FAM. Here's the money quote from an August 11th article in The Washington Post:

At BWI, screeners were so thorough that they confiscated toothpaste from air marshals, who carry guns.

For people with diabetes and some other conditions, foot care and cleanliness is of the utmost importance. Such individuals are advised to not go barefoot and to keep their feet scrupulously clean. Why? Because they can pick up bacteria that can, in certain circumstances, lead to severe infections, and even amputation.

Deleted

Question for Bart
 

Hi Bart,

Disclaimer: I realize this isn't up to you, you don't know the answer, and that I'm asking for pure speculation.

Do you think TSA will eventually allow bottled water back on the planes that is purchased after security? It seems that explosives could be kept off planes so long as liquids and gels were not allowed through security. I'm assuming the merchandise sold by after-security-vendors is also inspected by the TSA before it's brought into the secure part of the terminal? If so, then I don't see why such merchandise could not be carried on board.

I appreciate any thoughts or comments you might have.

Exactly!

Bart, in light of this, are we still required to take off our shoes before walking through the metal detector? Can we ask/appeal to a supervisor for relief? We are talking health issue now.

Of course I know about diabetics, but that is a special case. Obviously, even if you are not diabetic, if you've got an open wound you have to keep it clean. My point was that the general populace has no hygienic need to wash their feet as often as they would wash their hands; it just isn't necessary for a healthy person's ordinary hygiene. Like most healthy Americans, I wash my feet once per day when I bathe, but I wash my hands at least a half-dozen times in an average day.

A bar of soap, a couple of ziplocs, and a washcloth or two will let you wash your feet as long as you can reach them; you can even buy pre-moistened cleansing cloths that foam up when wet. If your movement is restricted it will, of course, be difficult, but that is going to be no different than someone who cannot remove shoes whilst standing -- TSA will have to deal with the disabled on a case by case basis, as they have always done.

Deleted

true!
 

As true in your line of work as in mine!

Thanks Bart. At least I know this also makes sense to someone "in the know" and not just us road warriors.

Request for clarification: are you saying that fruits such as oranges and grapes, which "have liquids" in them, would be prohibited?

I had very good luck flying with (a five-pound bag of) oranges last weekend and have been assuming that will be my means of emergency/backup hydration. No screener made any comments about them--allowed or not--so it's possible they were just unseen.

I'd be more than a bit annoyed if some TSAer tried to confiscate them, but I'd at least like to know the rules.

more never-ending questions for Bart
 

My first post, as I too am getting unhinged by all this security stuff. Two questions for the long-suffering Bart:

If we have to take off our shoes, can we put on those disposable shoe-covers that medical personnel wear? Or will we be asked to take those off, too?

I read that aerosols are now prohibited. Does that include spray Evian? It's basically Evian water in a small spray can, which is great for long, dry flights.

I appreciate that the OP didn't "write" this article, something doesn't sound right here...AFAIK, FAMs do not go through TSA screening. Am I wrong here?

Best, Dave

I'm not Bart, but I think this can be answered by pretty much any one. The paper booties would be allowed as they are pretty much like socks, only made of paper. They don't make you take your socks off now, do they?

As for the Evian water in a spray can...sounds like a liquid to me, and the answer is still, NO. ;)

Welcome to FT, by the way!

Deleted

Deleted

Deleted

Kudo's on the attitude to have... thats the best and brightest quote I think I've read or heard in a long time... and thanks for the previous reply!