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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   NEWS: TSA Would Allow Sharp Objects on Airliners (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/498344-news-tsa-would-allow-sharp-objects-airliners.html)

flpab Nov 30, 2005 10:24 am

My biggest bugaboo with the prohibited list has been the fact that daily you see bottles of wine and drink carried on board. What better weapon than a broken bottle. I think that is much more dangerous than a small knife or pair of sissors. The TSA wants screeners to focus on IEDs more than small sisors. Hope this all comes to pass and the flight attendants should realize those wine bottles are much worse than any little knife.

doc Nov 30, 2005 10:45 am

Airline passengers will be allowed to carry small scissors and tools onto planes, reversing a rule that led to confiscation of many thousands of sharp objects at airports since the Sept. 11 terror attacks, a Homeland Security Department official said Wednesday.

Transportation Security Administration chief Kip Hawley on Friday will announce changes to the list of items prohibited in carry-on luggage and to the airport screening process, according to the official, who spoke only on condition of anonymity because the plan has yet to be announced.

With federal air marshals on planes, bulletproof cockpit doors, armed pilots and 100 percent screening of checked baggage, the threat of a terrorist taking over an airplane has lessened since the 2001 attacks, the official said. The biggest concern now is explosives.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1358697

PatrickHenry1775 Nov 30, 2005 11:34 am


Originally Posted by flpab
My biggest bugaboo with the prohibited list has been the fact that daily you see bottles of wine and drink carried on board. What better weapon than a broken bottle. I think that is much more dangerous than a small knife or pair of sissors. The TSA wants screeners to focus on IEDs more than small sisors. Hope this all comes to pass and the flight attendants should realize those wine bottles are much worse than any little knife.

Banning some sharp objects (while allowing wine bottles, pencils, laptops with screens, etc.) and taking those away at checkpoints was effective public relations, especially for those leisure travelers not skilled at critical thinking. This approach was also easy. Perhaps TSA is mustering the will to concentrate on true dangers to airliners.

Superguy Nov 30, 2005 11:53 am


Originally Posted by Spiff
Ice picks and box cutters are not credible weapons to hijack a plane.

People with irrational fear of these items ought to stay home under the bed and never, ever venture to the mall where these items are not only permitted but are actually sold there. :eek:

Finally, there's a shred of common sense at The Second Al-Qaida, but some 'fraidy cats have to get all scared and worked up about it. :td: :td:

Haven't you seen Basic Instinct? Sharon Stone PROVED to us that an icepick can be a weapon to hurt people! :D ;) :rolleyes:

Wally Bird Nov 30, 2005 12:05 pm


Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
This paradigm shift didn't happen post 9/11. It happened on 9/11! This method of attack was essentially shut off during the actual hijackings themselves. Flight 93 was the famous story. The people on the Pentagon airplane knew what was happening but couldn't react fast enough.

UA93 was ~40 minutes leaving EWR. If not for that, there likely would have been no passenger intervention and the hijackers would have successfully hit the 4th target, whatever that was. Reinforces your point about the level of planning, they had the basics figured but no contingencies and had to continue to the planned IP (near Cleveland) in order to pick up the waypoints from there.

L-1011 Nov 30, 2005 12:34 pm


Originally Posted by doc
With federal air marshals on planes, bulletproof cockpit doors, armed pilots and 100 percent screening of checked baggage, the threat of a terrorist taking over an airplane has lessened since the 2001 attacks, the official said. The biggest concern now is explosives.

Sounds like there is still hope for the TSA management. As a side note I saw that even DFW has a GE EntryScan now (terminal C - I don't know about the rest of them yet), which to me is another indication that TSA is ramping up their ability to check for explosives in a more efficient way.

Spiff Nov 30, 2005 1:46 pm


Originally Posted by L-1011
Sounds like there is still hope for the TSA management. As a side note I saw that even DFW has a GE EntryScan now (terminal C - I don't know about the rest of them yet), which to me is another indication that TSA is ramping up their ability to check for explosives in a more efficient way.

DFW Terminal D also has a GE EntryScan3. ^

FWAAA Nov 30, 2005 1:49 pm


Originally Posted by Bart
I applaud the move. I hope we get something official right away. My biggest concern is the frustration that will result when a passenger reads that TSA intends to allow small manicure scissors on board yet the screeners haven't been officially authorized to do so.

As for the rhetoric about landing planes safely yet have a bloodbath in the aisles, :rolleyes:

As I understand the article, small scissors, small pocketknives and small tools such as pocket-nerd screwdrivers (sorry, no other way to describe them) will be allowed. It is highly debatable whether or not these items ever constituted a potential weapons threat to begin with. Slashing someone with a baby Swiss Army knife may cut the skin and piss someone off, but it will hardly cut deep enough to cause serious injury nor have the blade length to reach any critical body parts. Unless, that is, someone was to lay real still as the attacker attempted to poke out an eye or something. And even then, the attacker might hit cartilage or bone which would fold the blade back on itself.

It's about time. It's a step in the right direction.

^ ^

Bart for President!

Or at least as TSA head honcho.

Here's another thread on the same subject with some spirited discussion over in the Newstand forum:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=498249

n5667 Nov 30, 2005 3:20 pm


Originally Posted by kenfry
Screeners will not seem them as scissors, but rather as steak knifes, and you are back to square one.

just like shoes ... oh...they are more than 1 inch in thickness, mind you are wearing flip flops.

Please, I don't know any screeners at my airport who are thrilled to tell grandma her cuticle scissors can't go on the plane.

Skyman65 Nov 30, 2005 3:25 pm

Great!

So how long until they decide to let us keep our shoes on?

GUWonder Nov 30, 2005 3:45 pm


Originally Posted by Skyman65
Great!

So how long until they decide to let us keep our shoes on?

The "ruling establishment" has to get back some of its popular support. And alienating the business traveller community in the name of "war on terror" has not worked wonders with the approval ratings.

This coming year should lead to a bit of pressure increasing. :)

Bart Nov 30, 2005 4:45 pm

Deleted

GeneralAviation Nov 30, 2005 6:20 pm

Not So Fast.....
 
I saw TSA head honcho Kip Hawley on the "NBC Nightly" news tonight with the ever-annoying Brian Williams. Anyhow, the point that Administrator Hawley was stressing can be summed up in one word: "inconsistency." He (Hawley) basically wants to keep everything in a constant state of flux to confuse and throw off the plans of "terrorists." After reading these threads for the last several years, a common theme from the flying public seems to be the lack of consistency from airport to airport, terminal to terminal, and checkpoint to checkpoint. This consistency will not be forthcoming from the likes of Mr. Hawley....."inconsistency" was a theme he stressed in no uncertain terms on the news tonight.

Pat what's her face from the Flight Attendants union also made an appearance in the report and expressed her dismay that "contraband"
like scissors and small pocket knikes were going to be allowed once again.

Greg

LessO2 Nov 30, 2005 7:00 pm


Originally Posted by GeneralAviation
I saw TSA head honcho Kip Hawley on the "NBC Nightly" news tonight with the ever-annoying Brian Williams. Anyhow, the point that Adminstrator Hawley was stressing can be summed up in one word: "inconsistency." He (Hawley) basically wants to keep everything in a constant state of flux to confuse and throw off the plans of "terrorists." After reading these threads for the last several years, a common theme from the flying public seems to be the lack of consistency from airport to airport, terminal to terminal, and checkpoint to checkpoint. This consistency will not be forthcoming from the likes of Mr. Hawley....."inconsistency" was a theme he stressed in no uncertain terms on the news tonight.

Whatta CYA comment from Hawley.

The bad guys scoped out their ground, taking several flights (just ask James Woods) before they did their jobs.

And Hawley thinks that consistent non-shoe carnival airports is going to thwart terrorism? That's how $5.5 billion is protecting us?

Teacher49 Nov 30, 2005 10:09 pm

Pre 9/11 I was relieved of my Swiss Army knife - the indispensible "Picnic" model which all the tools a civilized man needs: corkscrew, bottle cap opener and lockable blade of a decent size for cutting bread and cheese.

This was in Switzerland. I asked the screener why it was couldn't have this particular knife. She said it's the lockable blade. What do you need that for? So I don't cut my fingers off, I said. She smiled and put the knife in a pouch that was waiting for me when I got off the plane in Basel.

I hope these will be allowed again. I keep one at home and one in Switzerland for my lengthy work stays there. I am always concerned that one will get over looked in my packing and remain in my too many pocketed briefcase leading to loss of knife or even a fine.

As many have pointed out, hardened cockpits plus the fact that there are plenty of weapons on board every flight for those trained to improvise mean that this rule was irrelevant from its inception.


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