How about an administrative (TSA) court with a Coast Guard judge? You think one might be able to get a jury trial? :)

Best,

SDF_Traveler

Well said! I have always been against SSSS, but after being put through much more thorough searches post-Sept. 20, I have become a member of the ACLU and I will be writing letters to my Representative and Senator on November 3 when I find out who they will be.

Don't listen to these exaggerations. We don't touch the breasts and we don't use the front of the hand. Anyone who gets touched like Ms. Overreacter here, needs to get the screening manager involved in order to get the screener away from the passengers until she learnes the proper procedure.

I wondered why all the recent discussion on "groping" and such and now I guess I know the answer. If it is actually the case that this new, more invasive treatment of pax has officially kicked in, expect a general outcry from the traveling public.
But if history is any experience, it'll take 12-18 months for this more intimate searching to affect the occasional traveling public.
As usual, I was traveling every week after 9/11 and was shocked at what I considered the invasiveness of the new security procedures then. But I never saw any mention of this in the news or heard any complaints from my fellow travelers. I figured it was just me who was bothered by this new post 9/11 security.
I eventually shrugged it off and got used to the more intense security. And it wasn't until sometime in mid-2002 that I started to see articles in newspapers and stories on TV about how "tough" the new TSA security was.
I said "Duh...where has everybody been"??
And then it occurred to me that very few people travel EVERY week...most folks travel a couple times a year and either hadn't noticed the increased security or decided it was "OK" for some reason.
There is a very delayed reaction by the general public to changes in security procedures in airports. But I expect a huge outcry as more and more pax get groped on their way through our airports.

The Washington Post, among others, begs to differ:

The Transportation Security Administration announced yesterday that checkpoint screeners will begin training next week for the stepped-up searches that will take effect at all U.S. airports by Sept. 20. Screeners will be permitted to pat down passengers who appear suspicious because of bulky clothing -- not just those who set off the metal detector.

As part of the new procedures, screeners will also be allowed to use the inside of their hands to conduct the searches. Current policy allows screeners to touch passengers only with the back of the hand.

Here are some more independent news reports of the same type of invasive searches, don't take my word for it:
CBS news

Time Magazine: Airline security is about to get a lot more touchy-feely, and aviation experts say it's high time. Airport screeners from the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) often touch passengers whose belts or bras trigger a metal detector. This is usually done with the back of the hand, but new procedures awaiting approval will allow screeners — with permission — to use their open hand to search a passenger's body as part of a more thorough search for hidden explosives.

Just let me cover Myrgirl's response first - whether it's the back of the hand or the front of the hand, 'we the people' don't like it. We do not like being touched on our bodies by perfect strangers or patted down like criminals in a lineup. We do not appreciate being touched with the same plastic gloves that touched 50 other people because screeners assume the gloves are on for 'their' protection, not 'ours'....nor do we appreciate the sourpuss looks when some of us ask screeners to put on fresh gloves before touching us or our personal possessions. We do not share the same belief that violating the intimacy of our personal space will improve air safety. Gradgirl, you are not alone - even as a man, I am furious at being touched anywhere on my body by a perfect stranger. I am no less furious that it is a price being extorted from me as payment to allow me to fly - that my refusal to permit the touching would prevent me from flying and probably label me as someone the government needs to 'watch'. This past weekend, I visited Mt. Vernon - I looked at the vault holding the remains of George Washington and wondered to myself what level of disgust he would offer if he knew how his citizens were being treated by their own government - the level of fear and intimidation that is being used to control people. It was a sad moment for me.

Now, for the general issue of passenger tolerance. I have noticed a slight change in tone from the population when it comes to the new screening procedures. During the past couple years, each new act of silliness was met with mostly compliant comments from passengers interviewed on TV, or comments I heard in line. When the silly car searches (if they were so important to do, why aren't they being done now??) were implemented, folks replied "it's for our safety, so it must be ok". I even got into a couple arguments with fellow passengers when they overheard me getting snippy with a screener not following procedures, and told me I should be cooperative because it's being done for my safety (wrong thing to say to me).

Now, I am sensing a change in tone. When the new 'groping' rules were announced, I heard quite a few interviewees on tv say things like "now they have gone too far", or "this is a violation of my privacy". I rarely heard those statements before from the general 'sheeple'. I hear more grumbling from fellow passengers in line....more ridiculing of the TSA and its procedures. I overhear more debates from people. So...perhaps the tide is beginning to change. Perhaps the next wave of silly rules from the TSA will finally cross the line that pushes the majority of people to begin questioning the whole airport security environment. I still think the energy for change should be coming from the frequent flyers, the people who go through this the most. Once the legitimate concerns, complaints, and examples of silly abuse are pushed into the public mainstream, more and more people might begin to question what we are doing.

Saveskymiles was very effective at directing customer concerns at Delta, and possibly resulted in some changes within that organization - perhaps a similar website and grass-roots compaign could be launched to 'take back our airports'. A good idea in principle, but abit risky, in my opinion. Although there was not much Delta could do to stop saveskymiles, in our current political environment, I would not put it past the DHS, TSA or some other agency to find out who is behind the anti-TSA campaign and inflict some sort of pain - perhaps being placed on the no-fly list, or being publically ridiculed as un-patriotic. It might be a project better left to the ACLU and their resources...unless we could get a substantial number of participants.

This stuff is getting more ridiculous each day. What happens if you refuse permission? What bulky item can the open hand feel that the back of the hand can't? Which so-called aviation 'experts' think it's a good idea?

Who knows - an open-handed pat-down might just be the straw that breaks the camel's back and starts turning public opinion.

IMO, it's probably going to take more than this to get opinions changed immediately. Granny or Joe Six-Pack being patted down or "groped" is not going to make the general news.
But let the first congressman or government big-wig get the full treatment and then all Hell will break loose, trust me.
Kind of what happened when Ted Kennedy found himself on the No Fly list and started kicking butt at Homeland Security.
It's too bad that this is the way things have to happen for a change to be made but I guess whatever it takes.....

rumour
 

There is a terrible misconception going on. Nothing has come out that says we are to use the front of the hand on sensative areas. It is still back of hand on breast and groin area.

Then why all the media reports and stories in this forum?

hmmmm
 

EYE dont know
;)

We are not anti-security, but if it's needed lets do it right!!!!!!
 

Amen brother!

If we don't point out the foolishness/stupid/wasteful/just-for-show/way-to-invasive types of procedures we and our fellow travelers are being subjected to who will? Who is more qualified?

Thanks, eyecue. Taken under advisement for the next time. I had until now been under the impression, from the articles I referenced, that open hand is okay meant open hand is okay everywhere on the body.

There have been sporadic reports of open hand searches of breasts, but it's good to know that these searches are forbidden.

All that said: breast fondling by strangers, back of the hand or front, is disturbingly invasive, humiliating, and completely without merit as a screening measure. The flying public needs to stand up and stop this madness immediately.

And the news is not slanted, right? Nowhere in our training does it allow the use of the front of the hand on the breast. We use the back of the hand to swipe around the breast. Not only do I do this nearly all day every day, but who do you think gets practiced on in training?

That's an awfully diverse collection of slanted news articles. ;)

Feeling up passengers is wrong. Front, back, side, whatever of hand, it's still wrong. It may currently be legal, but hopefully the backlash against this harassment will extend to other stupid, un-American forms of harassment currently being used against Americans by the TSA. Maybe this backlash will even lead to this disgrace of an agency's well-deserved demise. :-: