Mathematician Criticizes "Security" Program
Jan 29, 2003, 9:26 am
#31
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REALITY CHECK,
Institute the SAME rules regarding box cutters and knives PRIOR to 9/11 and more than likely there is no hijacking. But, they would have found another way to attack the US.
The TSA has done NOTHING to improve Air Travel Security. It is 100,000 Government Employees worth of Window Dressing.
Institute the SAME rules regarding box cutters and knives PRIOR to 9/11 and more than likely there is no hijacking. But, they would have found another way to attack the US.
The TSA has done NOTHING to improve Air Travel Security. It is 100,000 Government Employees worth of Window Dressing.
Feb 2, 2003, 12:57 am
#32
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by screenerandproudofit:
REALITY CHECK
The last time I looked, mathematics was an wxact science. Try this for exact. Question 1. Since the implementation of the TSA methods of screening, how many acts of terrorism have been attempted on our airlines? Answer 1. Pick any number. Question 2. How many acts of terrorism have been accomplished on our airlines in that time? Answer 2. 0 Now divide Answer 1 by answer 2 and you get 0%. And 0% is a very nice number.</font>
REALITY CHECK
The last time I looked, mathematics was an wxact science. Try this for exact. Question 1. Since the implementation of the TSA methods of screening, how many acts of terrorism have been attempted on our airlines? Answer 1. Pick any number. Question 2. How many acts of terrorism have been accomplished on our airlines in that time? Answer 2. 0 Now divide Answer 1 by answer 2 and you get 0%. And 0% is a very nice number.</font>
The two responses to your post so far were really kind and only pointed out the lack of causality in your analysis.
I'll be crueler and point out that you've got your fraction upside down. I think you want to divide answer 2 by answer 1, not the other way around.
Feb 2, 2003, 5:37 pm
#33
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 928
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CameraGuy:
REALITY CHECK,
Institute the SAME rules regarding box cutters and knives PRIOR to 9/11 and more than likely there is no hijacking. But, they would have found another way to attack the US.
The TSA has done NOTHING to improve Air Travel Security. It is 100,000 Government Employees worth of Window Dressing.</font>
REALITY CHECK,
Institute the SAME rules regarding box cutters and knives PRIOR to 9/11 and more than likely there is no hijacking. But, they would have found another way to attack the US.
The TSA has done NOTHING to improve Air Travel Security. It is 100,000 Government Employees worth of Window Dressing.</font>
Feb 2, 2003, 5:53 pm
#34
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,953
I'm sure this is no surprise to you, but if your agency continues to cowardly hide behind this arrogant 'need to know' basis for releasing information, your agency will continue to lose credibility with each attempt to hide behind this miserable excuse. If the TSA disgracefully continues in this manner, I sincerely hope Congress will wake up and disenfranchise it.
------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 02-02-2003).]
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tsadude:
There has been nothing reported to the public. That does not mean any attempts have not been tried.
</font>
There has been nothing reported to the public. That does not mean any attempts have not been tried.
</font>
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 02-02-2003).]
Feb 2, 2003, 9:43 pm
#35
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 227
Do you really believe that a government agency that deals with security should just release all their info to the public? Think about it for a minute. What would happen if they just gave up all the intel they collected, all their operating procedures, all the why's and how's of the organization. Let's just arm every terrorist in the world, why don't we.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
I'm sure this is no surprise to you, but if your agency continues to cowardly hide behind this arrogant 'need to know' basis for releasing information, your agency will continue to lose credibility with each attempt to hide behind this miserable excuse. If the TSA disgracefully continues in this manner, I sincerely hope Congress will wake up and disenfranchise it.
</font>
I'm sure this is no surprise to you, but if your agency continues to cowardly hide behind this arrogant 'need to know' basis for releasing information, your agency will continue to lose credibility with each attempt to hide behind this miserable excuse. If the TSA disgracefully continues in this manner, I sincerely hope Congress will wake up and disenfranchise it.
</font>
Feb 2, 2003, 9:52 pm
#36
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: BWI
Programs: AA PLT and that's that!
Posts: 8,349
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tmspa:
Do you really believe that a government agency that deals with security should just release all their info to the public? Think about it for a minute. What would happen if they just gave up all the intel they collected, all their operating procedures, all the why's and how's of the organization. Let's just arm every terrorist in the world, why don't we.
</font>
Do you really believe that a government agency that deals with security should just release all their info to the public? Think about it for a minute. What would happen if they just gave up all the intel they collected, all their operating procedures, all the why's and how's of the organization. Let's just arm every terrorist in the world, why don't we.
</font>
Sorry, but I have failed to see where any intelligence has been used in the screening process so far. I hardly think that the number of pointy objects found should be considered and intelligence leak. Especially when you consider that one airport is selling confiscated items on eBay.
Feb 2, 2003, 9:59 pm
#37
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 227
I never said that the number of pointy objects found was an intelligence leak. There is so much more to it than that. The TSA is not just composed of screeners. There are Intelligence Specialists, Criminal Investigators, Law Enforcement Officers, and the list goes on. Eventually the TSA will conduct airline cargo screening, railway security...etc. There are processes and procedures that need to be protected, here.
[This message has been edited by tmspa (edited 02-02-2003).]
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:
Sorry, but I have failed to see where any intelligence has been used in the screening process so far. I hardly think that the number of pointy objects found should be considered and intelligence leak. Especially when you consider that one airport is selling confiscated items on eBay.
</font>
Sorry, but I have failed to see where any intelligence has been used in the screening process so far. I hardly think that the number of pointy objects found should be considered and intelligence leak. Especially when you consider that one airport is selling confiscated items on eBay.
</font>
[This message has been edited by tmspa (edited 02-02-2003).]
Feb 2, 2003, 11:05 pm
#38
Join Date: Oct 2000
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tmspa:
...Eventually the TSA will conduct airline cargo screening, railway security...etc. There are processes and procedures that need to be protected, here. </font>
...Eventually the TSA will conduct airline cargo screening, railway security...etc. There are processes and procedures that need to be protected, here. </font>
Calgon...take me away from the TSA.
Feb 2, 2003, 11:11 pm
#39
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
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When a terminal is evacuated, there better be a @#$% good reason for doing so, and there must be an explanation to all affected - not "it's for your own good." I am not a small child and I do not accept such whitewashing and neither will the rest of the traveling public.
------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tmspa:
Do you really believe that a government agency that deals with security should just release all their info to the public? Think about it for a minute. What would happen if they just gave up all the intel they collected, all their operating procedures, all the why's and how's of the organization. Let's just arm every terrorist in the world, why don't we.
</font>
Do you really believe that a government agency that deals with security should just release all their info to the public? Think about it for a minute. What would happen if they just gave up all the intel they collected, all their operating procedures, all the why's and how's of the organization. Let's just arm every terrorist in the world, why don't we.
</font>
------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
Feb 2, 2003, 11:47 pm
#40
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco
Programs: American Airlines Platinum Pro
Posts: 3,412
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tmspa:
Do you really believe that a government agency that deals with security should just release all their info to the public? Think about it for a minute. What would happen if they just gave up all the intel they collected, all their operating procedures, all the why's and how's of the organization. Let's just arm every terrorist in the world, why don't we.
</font>
Do you really believe that a government agency that deals with security should just release all their info to the public? Think about it for a minute. What would happen if they just gave up all the intel they collected, all their operating procedures, all the why's and how's of the organization. Let's just arm every terrorist in the world, why don't we.
</font>
I think if the TSA foiled a terrorist act, no matter how indirectly, it would be a press release in 5 minutes. The TSA is not the CIA. I don't see it as much more than an inefficient feel-good scanning group.
I don't think the TSA does much research, analysis, or actual creative planning work. I'd be shocked if the TSA had an employee at arrivals drop-off scanning cars for suspicious activity.
I'd also be shocked if they, for example, had cameras picking up the license plate of every vehicle that enters the airport. And I know the perimeters of these airports are like swiss cheese. Those maniac snipers near Washington DC probably could have brought down a plane a day with some larger fire power fixed up to their vehicle.
Is TSA scouting the fences around the airport. Is there camera coverage of the airport perimeter. I doubt it. But please continue to take away my kids' mini-swiss army knife and search my 86-year-old Dad.
Oh, and how come TSA allows skate boards on airplanes. Split in thirds the long way (easy if pre-scored) they're clubs. What's up with this stupid exception. And they're wielded by athletic young men exclusively.
Feb 3, 2003, 11:11 am
#41
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 928
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:
Sorry, but I have failed to see where any intelligence has been used in the screening process so far. I hardly think that the number of pointy objects found should be considered and intelligence leak. Especially when you consider that one airport is selling confiscated items on eBay.
</font>
Sorry, but I have failed to see where any intelligence has been used in the screening process so far. I hardly think that the number of pointy objects found should be considered and intelligence leak. Especially when you consider that one airport is selling confiscated items on eBay.
</font>
Feb 3, 2003, 8:01 pm
#42
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Oxford, CT USA
Posts: 256
Heres the thread http://www.flyertalk.com/milesfr.shtml
Heres the article
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/4822656.htm
rawbert
Heres the article
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/4822656.htm
rawbert
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tsadude:
Where is your reference and or location on Ebay?
Originally posted by tazi:
Sorry, but I have failed to see where any intelligence has been used in the screening process so far. I hardly think that the number of pointy objects found should be considered and intelligence leak. Especially when you consider that one airport is selling confiscated items on eBay.
</font>
Sorry, but I have failed to see where any intelligence has been used in the screening process so far. I hardly think that the number of pointy objects found should be considered and intelligence leak. Especially when you consider that one airport is selling confiscated items on eBay.
</font>
Feb 3, 2003, 8:07 pm
#43
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tmspa:
I never said that the number of pointy objects found was an intelligence leak. There is so much more to it than that. The TSA is not just composed of screeners. There are Intelligence Specialists, Criminal Investigators, Law Enforcement Officers, and the list goes on. Eventually the TSA will conduct airline cargo screening, railway security...etc. There are processes and procedures that need to be protected, here.</font>
I never said that the number of pointy objects found was an intelligence leak. There is so much more to it than that. The TSA is not just composed of screeners. There are Intelligence Specialists, Criminal Investigators, Law Enforcement Officers, and the list goes on. Eventually the TSA will conduct airline cargo screening, railway security...etc. There are processes and procedures that need to be protected, here.</font>
HA HA HA!!!
Thanks for the laugh!
And you wonder why so many FlyerTalkers (and why so many Americans) are laughing at the TSA (and its gullible employees)??
Statements like yours reinforce the growing belief that we made a terrible mistake in November, 2001.
Feb 3, 2003, 8:54 pm
#45
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco
Programs: American Airlines Platinum Pro
Posts: 3,412
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CameraGuy:
Please remember that mistake on election day. Remember that it was Tom Daschle and his party that forced the TSA down our throats.</font>
Please remember that mistake on election day. Remember that it was Tom Daschle and his party that forced the TSA down our throats.</font>