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Originally Posted by bafan
(Post 37002686)
Yes. It happened as described. And nothing more to it.
We’re both lawyers and have no reason to lie for likes. |
Originally Posted by dougzz
(Post 37002167)
The UK does this for financial reasons. Automate everything possible to save on the cost of a border officer.
Originally Posted by BERbound
(Post 37002746)
The financial reason rationale gets reeled out on every thread like this. We aren’t the only European country who needs to save money.
Originally Posted by orbitmic
(Post 37002761)
Indeed, which is why pretty much every European country is moving in that direction, most certainly including Schengen area countries. This has been delayed and in many countries poorly implemented (largely because the infrastructural choices are precisely organised by each country whilst the Schengen rules are area wide so discrepancies lead to huge problems) but be sure that if the whole continent could use a magic wand and switch to full automation they'd be waving like crazy!! Numerous trials of passport less border crossing too for the same reason.
The reality is HMG and especially the FCDO aren't so concerned with how UK nationals are treated abroad -- they don't see this as a problem and won't do anything about it. |
Originally Posted by OGG flyer
(Post 37002218)
How did I miss the point? I said exactly that. The fact that there are not enough resources is meaningless and unrelated to my post, they will just join the manual queues which would be longer and take even longer with the current number of immigration staff. No different to when I travel to EU on UK passport at times and had to queue for 1hour plus on a few occasions because they had 2 people and 2 desks open out of, say, 12 manual desks that were closed/unmaned. How is this different?
This is about fairness, nothing else. if people have to queue for 4 hours that is irrelevant. Perhaps someone would then do something about it. Why Americans or Canadians , Aussies can use automated gates in EU terminals, but not Brits? Makes no sense! They are not in EU either but can use automated gates. |
If the OP hadn't named the airport but had asked us to guess ARN would have been my call. I didn't have a hostile experience there, but it was much more extensive that anywhere else in the EU (and even in the US). Wanted to see every hotel reservation for the trip. 'Why are you changing hotels for the final night?' 'Can we see your return ticket?' Sweden is one of the few places where I still make sure to have everything printed off as their instinct doesn't seem to be to take people at their word.
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Originally Posted by Never Stansted
(Post 37002814)
If the OP hadn't named the airport but had asked us to guess ARN would have been my call. I didn't have a hostile experience there, but it was much more extensive that anywhere else in the EU (and even in the US). Wanted to see every hotel reservation for the trip. 'Why are you changing hotels for the final night?' 'Can we see your return ticket?' Sweden is one of the few places where I still make sure to have everything printed off as their instinct doesn't seem to be to take people at their word.
They detained all non-Swedes in the pre-border control area for well over 1.5 hours. I can deal with queueing, but the uncertainty of not even knowing whether you could enter the country - they claimed "the border is closed indefinitely, you will be held until the morning" (this was at around midnight) - was most unpleasant. It was only resolved once a critical mass of passengers threatened to call the police or to 'storm' the desks. At that point they magically started processing people manually, just as they could have done from the outset. Allowing Swedes through, but not other EU citizens, was blatant discrimination in breach of the Schengen Border Code. Unfortunately my complaint to the Swedish Ombudsman didn't end up going anywhere because the Swedish border agency said "sorry". Well that's alright then, I guess :rolleyes: Suffice it to say I am boycotting ARN for the foreseeable future. And that's as a dual UK/EU citizen... |
Is the "denied entry" recorded? I wonder if the OPs friend could not have waited an hour or so and tried again, preferably alongside another plane full of brits? (HUACA but for the border....)
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Originally Posted by linz36
(Post 37002949)
Is the "denied entry" recorded? I wonder if the OPs friend could not have waited an hour or so and tried again, preferably alongside another plane full of brits? (HUACA but for the border....)
And, he couldn’t walk away and try again, because he was taken away for questioning before being released into the departure area for the night. |
Originally Posted by orbitmic
(Post 37002737)
Which, with due respect, is saying more about the accuracy of what you "see" than about reality. ;)
As an example, France's border force alone, despite plenty of automation (but less than in the UK) is over 25% larger than the UK's despite having nearly twice fewer international entries (France gets a lot more visitors than the UK but the vast majority arrive from another Schengen country without border checks). As for the US, its border force is 6 times larger than the UK's and no, that's nowhere near proportional to the number of entries either. The whole suggestion that somehow, automated border control would not automatically imply very significant cuts in border force numbers (or that its reversal would not necessarily entail significantly larger needs for staff) is a complete non starter. I don’t doubt your numbers re staffing in France , US or anywhere else. What I ‘see’ is a limited number of desks available to foreign visitors regardless of how many staff are actually on the payroll. |
Originally Posted by TabTraveller
(Post 37002616)
Yeh this seems to be a Northern European obsession. In my experience no one gives a toss entering and exiting in Portugal, Spain and Greece.
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Originally Posted by Mileometer
(Post 37001951)
That's very interesting information. Not questioning its validity whatsoever, but could you share where you got that information from (or what its based upon) as Cyprus not caring about the 90 days/180 days rule would be a huge help to a friend.
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Originally Posted by flarmip
(Post 37002926)
Indeed ARN is also the airport where I have had my worst ever border control experience a couple of years ago. Their IT systems were down, but instead of processing people manually they were just refusing entry to everyone except Swedish nationals and residents (and the flight crew - it was a nightstopper).
... Suffice it to say I am boycotting ARN for the foreseeable future. And that's as a dual UK/EU citizen... I'm still attempting to boycott Canada after a nasty experience with their border staff in 2016 |
Originally Posted by mmogdan
(Post 37003001)
Last week exiting Lisbon they were asking many questions and taking an unusual long time processing people, but I noticed a delegation of German and other country border police (with some EU wristbands) hanging around. So perhaps there was some sort of inspection or delegation visiting and they were told to do it by the book.
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Originally Posted by fartoomanyusers
(Post 37003011)
when did your ARN incident happen?
I'm still attempting to boycott Canada after a nasty experience with their border staff in 2016 |
I'm surprised the most important question hasn't been asked yet. Did he get his nTP's?
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Originally Posted by bafan
(Post 37002993)
He was assured it wasn’t recorded and wouldn’t be an issue if he tried to re-enter at a later date, or for any entry to any other EU country. So, fingers crossed.
And, he couldn’t walk away and try again, because he was taken away for questioning before being released into the departure area for the night. An interesting type of prisoner's dilemma - as presumably he could have said - either formally refuse me or let me in. A high-stakes game of chicken, I expect it would work if e.g. a relatively junior officer wanted to refuse him, but his superior would not sign off on it, causing this "face-saving" plan to be hatched. Full rules are here - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2016/399/oj/eng - the relevant part is that someone seeking entry must justify the purpose and conditions of the intended stay, and they have sufficient means of subsistence, both for the duration of the intended stay and for the return to their country of origin or transit to a third country into which they are certain to be admitted, or are in a position to acquire such means lawfully; |
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