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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Ex EU - a cautionary tale (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/2191180-ex-eu-cautionary-tale.html)

AviosTreasureHunter Apr 9, 2025 3:47 am


Originally Posted by nancypants (Post 37014244)
germans are not even close to being the only EU nationals that can’t use Australia smartgates

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...1f114f1259.png

That is not the full list.
Did I say they were the only EU country not on the list? Re-read what I wrote.
They are certainly the one of the only wealthy EU countries not on the list. I see Belgium and Netherlands also are excluded.
I think it may be Australia reciprocating their exclusion from EasyPass (exempt MUC weirdly), and access to their E-Gates. Good for them.

Barciur Apr 9, 2025 10:01 am


Originally Posted by pseudoswede (Post 37014202)
Preface: American with only a US passport who doesn't look remotely Swedish

My most common entry into the EU is at ARN. Since Mrs. Swede and kids also have Swedish passports, they dump me and go through the citizen line and grab our checked baggage. When I finally get to a passport booth, the border agent asks for the purpose of my visit as they thumb through my passport. I reply to them in Swedish that I'm here on vacation with my wife and kid(s) to visit my in-laws for a few weeks. The tone changes rather quickly; they then ask a few other high-level questions, compliment me on my Swedish-speaking abilities, and then stamp my passport and wish me a good day.

So yeah, being able to speak the local language helps.

I don't think a border agent at any EU airport has ever spoken to me when exiting the EU. They just simply look for the entry stamp and stamp the exit stamp as close to it as possible.

Have you ever tried going through them with the EU line? I have successfully used a US passport travelling with an EU citizen at EU passport lines, just had to be manned desk. Was under the impression that being a family like that was allowed. Not sure on 100% legality of this though.

nancypants Apr 9, 2025 3:06 pm


Originally Posted by AviosTreasureHunter (Post 37012807)

Interestingly, Germans are almost the only EU citizens that are not allowed to use the E-Gates in Australia! I remember landing at Darwin from East Timor and Germany was the glaring ommission from the large photograph of flags who could use the E-Gates. They even had an ABF lady shouting 'Any Germans?' to ensure they were sent to a manned desk.


Originally Posted by nancypants (Post 37014244)
germans are not even close to being the only EU nationals that can’t use Australia smartgates



Originally Posted by AviosTreasureHunter (Post 37015053)
That is not the full list.
Did I say they were the only EU country not on the list? Re-read what I wrote.
They are certainly the one of the only wealthy EU countries not on the list. I see Belgium and Netherlands also are excluded.
I think it may be Australia reciprocating their exclusion from EasyPass (exempt MUC weirdly), and access to their E-Gates. Good for them.

The full list of EU passports allowed to use Australian smartgates:
Austria
Denmark
France
Finland
Ireland
Italy
Luxembourg
Sweden
=8 countries or around 29% of the total nations in the EU, leaving 71% of the EU nations as ineligible

https://www.abf.gov.au/entering-and-...gates/arrivals

you may wish to re read what I wrote also….

pseudoswede Apr 9, 2025 11:31 pm


Originally Posted by Barciur (Post 37015820)
Have you ever tried going through them with the EU line? I have successfully used a US passport travelling with an EU citizen at EU passport lines, just had to be manned desk. Was under the impression that being a family like that was allowed. Not sure on 100% legality of this though.

I think it was three years ago, the line at ARN passport control to get into the EU was insanely long. We only had about an hour before our connecting bus. The line for citizens was also long but moving rather steadily. Mrs. Swede pleaded with security that I be allowed to go with them, but they said no. I did make it to the bus with about 10 minutes to spare, but I was definitely getting nervous. So many people missed their connecting flights.

Barciur Apr 10, 2025 7:29 am

That's pretty crazy. I have gone through that line in Spain, Poland and Amsterdam for sure. Never had issues!

stifle Apr 11, 2025 7:34 am


Originally Posted by Geordie405 (Post 37002729)
So if they were denied entry and sent back to LHR does that mean that the airline (BA in this case) would be fined or some other sanction applied?

No, fines would only apply if there was deficiency of documents or other reason BA would have been aware of not to allow the passenger to travel.

Originally Posted by bafan (Post 37002993)
He was assured it wasn’t recorded and wouldn’t be an issue if he tried to re-enter at a later date, or for any entry to any other EU country. So, fingers crossed.

And, he couldn’t walk away and try again, because he was taken away for questioning before being released into the departure area for the night.

For a passenger who is refused at the Schengen border, the passport must be stamped with the entry stamp which then must be cancelled by drawing a + through the stamp, and a letter between A and I written next to it indicating the reason for refusal. A refusal of entry form as set out in EU regulation 2016/399 must be issued and a copy given to the passenger.

Did any of this happen? If not, it seems likely that the border guard has used some informal/unofficial process and not actually refused entry formally, just had the passenger informally withdraw their request for permission to enter Sweden.


Originally Posted by Voice from the South West (Post 37003273)
Forgive the naïve question but I thought when the boarder guard scans the passport before stamping that it should flag whether or not you've hit the 90 days? Or am I wrong? Only time I've been questioned on entry was in Berlin when I was asked how long I was planning on staying, as three weeks prior I'd left Malaga where the boarder guard didn't scan my passport and just stamped it there and then when I handed it over. I told the Berlin guard that and he just rolled his eyes and then stamped my passport.

The systems to show that do not all link up at present.

Originally Posted by Barciur (Post 37015820)
Have you ever tried going through them with the EU line? I have successfully used a US passport travelling with an EU citizen at EU passport lines, just had to be manned desk. Was under the impression that being a family like that was allowed. Not sure on 100% legality of this though.

Officially speaking, non-EU citizens who are travelling with an immediate family member that is an EU citizen may join the EU line in any country other than the family member's country of citizenship, and is similarly exempt from visa and in due course ETIAS fees. If travelling to the country of citizenship of the EU citizen, domestic rules of that country apply.

RL106 Apr 11, 2025 8:05 pm


Originally Posted by stifle (Post 37019852)
Officially speaking, non-EU citizens who are travelling with an immediate family member that is an EU citizen may join the EU line in any country other than the family member's country of citizenship, and is similarly exempt from visa and in due course ETIAS fees. If travelling to the country of citizenship of the EU citizen, domestic rules of that country apply.

And depending on the country, they'll still let you though the EU line with the foreign spouse. Annoyingly, the ETIAS fee will apply if you want to enter the family member's country of citizenship. The fee-waived one is not vaild for that one single country. Go figure.

stifle Apr 12, 2025 2:51 am


Originally Posted by RL106 (Post 37021128)
And depending on the country, they'll still let you though the EU line with the foreign spouse. Annoyingly, the ETIAS fee will apply if you want to enter the family member's country of citizenship. The fee-waived one is not vaild for that one single country. Go figure.

Indeed. The rationale, such as it is, is that:
  • The EU citizen has effective freedom of movement to other EU states (freedom both of cost and of restrictions)
  • That freedom of movement must include freedom to bring their immediate family members, otherwise it's ineffective
  • But when the EU citizen is entering their country of citizenship, they are not exercising their freedom of movement under EU law but their right to enter their country of citizenship in that country's own law
  • Therefore all of the above goes out the window and domestic rules apply 🙃

diburning Apr 18, 2025 10:14 am


Originally Posted by Barciur (Post 37015820)
Have you ever tried going through them with the EU line? I have successfully used a US passport travelling with an EU citizen at EU passport lines, just had to be manned desk. Was under the impression that being a family like that was allowed. Not sure on 100% legality of this though.

They won't take pseudoswede. I can tell you now that entering/exiting the EU through ARN is either very easy or very difficult with no in-between. I was trying to leave the EU through ARN (ARN-JFK on Delta) and was in the "All other passports" line to be stamped out. While I was in line, they had a shift change and flipped the line I was in to EU/EEA passports only. The other people in line saw this and someone mentioned "what are they going to do, refuse to let us leave?" Then when the next person went up to the counter, they were told that they could not be processed because the line is now an EU/EEA passports only line. The person protested that they were in line for a long time and that it's not their fault that they swapped the lane. The Swedish border guard explained that they did a shift change and that the previous guard took the stamp with them, and so the current guard could not stamp anyone out of the EU; so that's why the lane was EU/EEA passports only.

So, we all got into another line as my flight was just beyond the counter, with a final boarding call. Of course, I had the dreaded SSSS on my boarding pass, so I had to go get my bags and shoes swabbed, but the person doing the check took my boarding pass to the gate agent to scan, so that they wouldn't leave without me and could load my checked bag. Thankfully, the process was quick, I wasn't the last person to board my flight, and even after boarding completed, we still somehow pushed back 15 minutes early.

A few days prior, I had to get stamped out as I was flying ARN-LHR on SAS. Absolutely no issue, and I was quickly stamped out with no line for the desk.

txp Apr 19, 2025 3:05 pm


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 37001926)
I used to get a few blunt questions when entering Sweden - in the days of Apartheid - due to the South African stamps in my passport. More recently over in Norway I was also queried at Tromsø when arriving from MAD, so a purely Schengen trip. I wanted to say my grandfather had fewer problems entering Tromsø in May 1945, but thought better of it.

Isn't this an internal Schengen border? Where they doing a border check at internal borders?

corporate-wage-slave Apr 19, 2025 3:12 pm


Originally Posted by txp (Post 37036420)
Isn't this an internal Schengen border? Where they doing a border check at internal borders?

Yes, and it's an increasingly common aspect of travel within Schengen. Norway is by no means the only country to do this.

txp Apr 19, 2025 3:18 pm


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 37036431)
Yes, and it's an increasingly common aspect of travel within Schengen. Norway is by no means the only country to do this.

Thank you for the reply. So, do they route passengers to formal passport control, or do they just send border guards to meet the plane by the jetway and then select passengers "randomly" for additional questions?

corporate-wage-slave Apr 19, 2025 4:04 pm


Originally Posted by txp (Post 37036438)
Thank you for the reply. So, do they route passengers to formal passport control, or do they just send border guards to meet the plane by the jetway and then select passengers "randomly" for additional questions?

In this instance we walked past the old passport desks, which have been decommissioned, but the border agents were stamding by them, checking all IDs from all non domestic flights. I mistakenly pulled out my UK passport rather than my French passport, and that was given some extra checks. It didn't take more than a few minutes though.

Fredrik74 Apr 21, 2025 1:07 pm


Originally Posted by miamiflyer8 (Post 37003595)
OP, I am sorry your partner had that experience.

As a Swedish citizen even I’ve had unpleasant interactions at ARN after presenting my ID card instead of my passport. Usually I get a loud sigh and often a lecture that I’m not allowed to exit Schengen using the card (partly true)…

I generally find almost all staff at ARN, in any capacity, to be lacking inter-personal skills.

I wonder about the question in the OP though. Many seem to have bad experiences at ARN. Is it always the BA flight? That one departs/arrives from T2 and I wonder if it's a separate team working the border there? I have a bad gut feeling about the "interesting" destinations at T5 not receiving the same scrutiny described here.

miamiflyer8 Apr 21, 2025 3:35 pm


Originally Posted by Fredrik74 (Post 37039866)
I generally find almost all staff at ARN, in any capacity, to be lacking inter-personal skills.

I wonder about the question in the OP though. Many seem to have bad experiences at ARN. Is it always the BA flight? That one departs/arrives from T2 and I wonder if it's a separate team working the border there? I have a bad gut feeling about the "interesting" destinations at T5 not receiving the same scrutiny described here.

I haven’t done a non-Schengen trip from T2 since about 2012, so I don’t think it’s terminal specific IME as T5 staff aren't exactly pleasant either.


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