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-   -   The Basis (Such as it is) for the War on Liquids (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1942386-basis-such-war-liquids.html)

WillCAD Dec 2, 2018 7:06 pm

So, folks, I must confess something here - I have never traveled outside the United States except for a long-ago Bahamian cruise, so I have no experience with aviation security in any other countries.

Which means I don't know how many other countries other then the US have liquids restrictions similar to ours. I gather from posts here on FT that very few countries have them (other than on flights from other countries bound for the US, which abide by US TSA rules), but I'm not clear on the details.

So, how many other countries have liquids restrictions similar to the US, for either domestic or international (non-US-bound) flights?

GUWonder Dec 2, 2018 10:54 pm


Originally Posted by WillCAD (Post 30492096)
So, folks, I must confess something here - I have never traveled outside the United States except for a long-ago Bahamian cruise, so I have no experience with aviation security in any other countries.

Which means I don't know how many other countries other then the US have liquids restrictions similar to ours. I gather from posts here on FT that very few countries have them (other than on flights from other countries bound for the US, which abide by US TSA rules), but I'm not clear on the details.

So, how many other countries have liquids restrictions similar to the US, for either domestic or international (non-US-bound) flights?

At least for the better part of the period from 2006 to now, Israel didn’t wage the “war on water” similar to the US, unless it was for flights to a country waging the Anglo-American-style “war on water” — and even then it was not all-in always.

The “war on water” is applicable in most of the countries to which I travel to/from/via more than once a year and/or when traveling on flights to the countries fully participating in the “war on water”. So it hits my flights to/from most countries on my trips.

BSBD Dec 3, 2018 1:45 am


Originally Posted by WillCAD (Post 30492096)
So, folks, I must confess something here - I have never traveled outside the United States except for a long-ago Bahamian cruise, so I have no experience with aviation security in any other countries.

Which means I don't know how many other countries other then the US have liquids restrictions similar to ours. I gather from posts here on FT that very few countries have them (other than on flights from other countries bound for the US, which abide by US TSA rules), but I'm not clear on the details.

So, how many other countries have liquids restrictions similar to the US, for either domestic or international (non-US-bound) flights?

Almost every county has liquids restrictions. IIRC there are only four, possibly five, countries in the world that do NOT have liquids restrictions for domestic travel.


chrisl137 Dec 3, 2018 2:08 am


Originally Posted by Badenoch (Post 30490234)
Their plot was closer to "viable" than it was theoretical. While not a fan of the liquid restrictions I have zero sympathy for those who would put lives at risk so they can enjoy their favorite seltzer. Boo-hoo.

If it were viable someone would have done it by now. All the TSA restrictions are theater to make you feel like they're doing something, but could be defeated by an even mildly determined attacker.

The main reason there are so few terrorist attacks is because there just aren't that many terrorists, and even fewer who are competent. Which is a good thing, because TSA does a terrible job of detecting test attacks.

GUWonder Dec 3, 2018 2:19 am

Here’s a UA flight bombing in 1933 which some blamed on a liquid bomb:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933...-air_explosion

And yet for over 70 years, the US didn’t decide to wage this kind of “war on water” at airports.

A chunk of solid sodium flushed down the plane lavatory would make quite the big bang due to the plane’s water, and it wouldn’t take much genius to place the chunks in water-soluble gel caps or as tablets to make them look like medicine and then do so. Ban plane lavatories from having water, ban airlines from serving beverages, and ban medicine from planes? Good luck keeping the industry alive as is with such restrictions.

Mauibaby2008 Dec 3, 2018 2:32 am

just flew intra Indonesia with two bottles of water in my backpack. nothing was said and I did this twice

FliesWay2Much Dec 3, 2018 10:56 am


Originally Posted by Mauibaby2008 (Post 30492958)
just flew intra Indonesia with two bottles of water in my backpack. nothing was said and I did this twice

You must not be aware that dihydrogen monoxide magically loses it explosive properties at the Equator. ;)

JamesBigglesworth Dec 3, 2018 10:04 pm


Originally Posted by BSBD (Post 30492890)
Almost every county has liquids restrictions. IIRC there are only four, possibly five, countries in the world that do NOT have liquids restrictions for domestic travel.

I don't think that's right. I've never encountered them in the Schengen region, South America, or most of the Pacific.


Originally Posted by Badenoch (Post 30490234)
Their plot was closer to "viable" than it was theoretical. While not a fan of the liquid restrictions I have zero sympathy for those who would put lives at risk so they can enjoy their favorite seltzer. Boo-hoo.

You're ignoring the actual risk. It simply isn't there. There simply aren't thousands of Evil Doer's (tm) out there plotting against the US/UK/France/Etc. If there were then we'd have seen airline workers planting bombs on aircraft all over the US. We'd have seen Western airliners shot down at take off or landing by the dozen from Morocco to Egypt to India by MANPAD AA missiles because those weapons are freely available if you really want one. But we've seen none of that.

Extremist nutters (of any flavour) *are* willing to do these things. But they usually do them for local reasons. Doing things against a 'great power' just annoys the great power. They'll rail against the Great Satan, but they are doing so to appeal to the local audience, and their violent actions tend to be very locally focused in intent.

The "war on water" is futile. The *only* people to benefit from it are the governments imposing it (fear = control) and the bogeyman they're using to impose it.

GUWonder Dec 4, 2018 12:37 am


Originally Posted by JamesBigglesworth (Post 30496431)
I don't think that's right. I've never encountered them in the Schengen region, South America, or most of the Pacific.

The EU and the non-EU Schengen area countries wage the “war on water” at all EU/Schengen airports for at least regularly scheduled common carrier flights.

BSBD Dec 4, 2018 12:13 pm


Originally Posted by JamesBigglesworth (Post 30496431)
I don't think that's right. I've never encountered them in the Schengen region, South America, or most of the Pacific.

I live in the Schengen Area. We have liquids restrictions here.

The few countries that don’t have domestic restrictions similar to the rest of the world are in the Pacific region, and South America.

GUWonder Dec 4, 2018 1:16 pm


Originally Posted by BSBD (Post 30498415)


I live in the Schengen Area. We have liquids restrictions here.

The few countries that don’t have domestic restrictions similar to the rest of the world are in the Pacific region, and South America.

Africa? Parts of Latin America that aren’t part of South America?

JamesBigglesworth Dec 4, 2018 2:32 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 30496684)

The EU and the non-EU Schengen area countries wage the “war on water” at all EU/Schengen airports for at least regularly scheduled common carrier flights.

They do? Interesting. I've never had anyone pull liquids during screening so have always assumed they didn't have that nonsense. Lucky me, I guess. :)

chollie Dec 4, 2018 3:28 pm


Originally Posted by JamesBigglesworth (Post 30498911)
They do? Interesting. I've never had anyone pull liquids during screening so have always assumed they didn't have that nonsense. Lucky me, I guess. :)

I have. Very different experience than in the US.

There was no punitive comprehensive bag search out of my sight, accompanied by a full grope. Instead, while the bag was right there on the belt, the screener verified it was my bag, opened it, glanced at the xray and pulled the bottle of water.

Then the screener offered me the bottle of water, asking if I wanted to drink it first, right there, or just give it up.

So civilized. So much faster than a similar encounter in the US generally is.

Boggie Dog Dec 4, 2018 4:49 pm


Originally Posted by chollie (Post 30499075)
I have. Very different experience than in the US.

There was no punitive comprehensive bag search out of my sight, accompanied by a full grope. Instead, while the bag was right there on the belt, the screener verified it was my bag, opened it, glanced at the xray and pulled the bottle of water.

Then the screener offered me the bottle of water, asking if I wanted to drink it first, right there, or just give it up.

So civilized. So much faster than a similar encounter in the US generally is.

Politeness is one key factor missing at far too many TSA checkpoints. It almost seems to be a training qualifier.

BSBD Dec 5, 2018 9:08 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 30498620)


Africa? Parts of Latin America that aren’t part of South America?

Not sure what you are asking. "Latin America" is a socio-political construct, whereas North and South America are geo-political constructs. From a geo standpoint, a country is either in North America or South America.

Ref Africa - my understanding is that for the few countries in Africa that have regular commercial domestic air travel, the restrictions on liquids are either similar to or more restrictive than in most other countries.


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