FAM left weapon in bathroom of plane
Apr 21, 2017, 9:37 am
#1
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FAM left weapon in bathroom of plane
Here
You'll have to read the article as the NY Times has made it impossible to copy text from an article.
This is TSA's comment from another article:
To which I would respond "only when it serves their purposes."
And Here
You'll have to read the article as the NY Times has made it impossible to copy text from an article.
This is TSA's comment from another article:
“Accountability is an important aspect of our work,” the spokesman said, “and TSA takes prompt and appropriate action when allegations of misconduct are substantiated.”
And Here
Apr 21, 2017, 10:02 am
#3
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My company has always taken security and safety seriously.
A courier left something in the company men's room once. Keep in mind, this was on a gated compound where every building had to be accessed by badge reader, and within each building, access was limited by internal badge readers. Ordinary members of the public weren't strolling around randomly.
That courier was stripped of his badge and walked off the premises the day he left the item in the men's room. No retraining, no 'second chances'.
A courier left something in the company men's room once. Keep in mind, this was on a gated compound where every building had to be accessed by badge reader, and within each building, access was limited by internal badge readers. Ordinary members of the public weren't strolling around randomly.
That courier was stripped of his badge and walked off the premises the day he left the item in the men's room. No retraining, no 'second chances'.
Apr 21, 2017, 10:12 am
#4
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Apr 21, 2017, 10:26 am
#5
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My company has always taken security and safety seriously.
A courier left something in the company men's room once. Keep in mind, this was on a gated compound where every building had to be accessed by badge reader, and within each building, access was limited by internal badge readers. Ordinary members of the public weren't strolling around randomly.
That courier was stripped of his badge and walked off the premises the day he left the item in the men's room. No retraining, no 'second chances'.
A courier left something in the company men's room once. Keep in mind, this was on a gated compound where every building had to be accessed by badge reader, and within each building, access was limited by internal badge readers. Ordinary members of the public weren't strolling around randomly.
That courier was stripped of his badge and walked off the premises the day he left the item in the men's room. No retraining, no 'second chances'.
Edit to add: And passengers who have a gun at the checkpoint are always chastised about responsible people always knowing where their gun is. When are those posters going to pipe up?
Apr 21, 2017, 10:44 am
#6
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From The New York Times article linked above:
Excerpts:
***
The passenger gave the weapon to a member of the flight crew, who returned it to the air marshal. But the marshal, who is based in the New York region, failed to report the incident to her superiors, as required by agency policy, until several days later. The incident happened on April 6, aboard a Delta flight from Manchester to Kennedy International Airport.
***
The air marshal who left the weapon unattended, according to people with knowledge of the situation, is a new hire. The T.S.A. declined to provide any additional information.
***
Current and former employees said the episode raised questions about how discipline is handled at the agency. The employees said some air marshals had been forced to resign or had been fired for minor transgressions. “It's a toxic culture and a lack of accountability,” Mr. MacLean said.
***
The passenger gave the weapon to a member of the flight crew, who returned it to the air marshal. But the marshal, who is based in the New York region, failed to report the incident to her superiors, as required by agency policy, until several days later. The incident happened on April 6, aboard a Delta flight from Manchester to Kennedy International Airport.
***
The air marshal who left the weapon unattended, according to people with knowledge of the situation, is a new hire. The T.S.A. declined to provide any additional information.
***
Current and former employees said the episode raised questions about how discipline is handled at the agency. The employees said some air marshals had been forced to resign or had been fired for minor transgressions. “It's a toxic culture and a lack of accountability,” Mr. MacLean said.
***
Apr 21, 2017, 8:47 pm
#7
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CNN's story:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/21/politi...oom/index.html
Nice. Feel so safe.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/21/politi...oom/index.html
Sources within the Federal Air Marshal Service said the agent in question is a relatively new hire who should have been placed on leave for leaving her gun. Instead, the agent remains on active flight duty, CNN has been told.
A former federal air marshal familiar with the situation told CNN that newly hired air marshals do not currently receive on-the-job training and said this incident might have been avoided if the individual had been paired with a senior air marshal.
A former federal air marshal familiar with the situation told CNN that newly hired air marshals do not currently receive on-the-job training and said this incident might have been avoided if the individual had been paired with a senior air marshal.
Apr 21, 2017, 9:10 pm
#8
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I find it funny that some former air Marshall commented in the article that "she wasn't given the appropriate tools to succeed," since she was a new hire and not much training was involved. What tools and training did she need? Common sense to not leave your loaded weapon behind?
Apr 21, 2017, 10:22 pm
#9
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I find it funny that some former air Marshall commented in the article that "she wasn't given the appropriate tools to succeed," since she was a new hire and not much training was involved. What tools and training did she need? Common sense to not leave your loaded weapon behind?
Apr 22, 2017, 9:34 am
#10
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FAM's fly as a group although they don't interact with each other once on the airplane and probably well before boarding. Even being a fairly new FAM doesn't mean they haven't had a good bit of training specific to how FAM's work and I would hazard a guess than all armed LEO know not to leave a weapon unattended somewhere. I would be curious to know how the FAM's are carrying their weapons that requires removal while in a restroom. IWB holster seems likely.
I agree that some kind of discipline is called for. Is this a firing offense or some other punishment would be enough? For a flyer to present at a TSA Screening Checkpoint the fine goes up to $11,000 although I know a guy that was found with 2 guns during one screening and the fine amount was reduced to a much lower number. So wouldn't an $11,000 fine be adequate if there are no other issues involved?
I agree that some kind of discipline is called for. Is this a firing offense or some other punishment would be enough? For a flyer to present at a TSA Screening Checkpoint the fine goes up to $11,000 although I know a guy that was found with 2 guns during one screening and the fine amount was reduced to a much lower number. So wouldn't an $11,000 fine be adequate if there are no other issues involved?
Apr 22, 2017, 10:26 am
#11
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I think the number one rule for any firearm owner is 'know where your weapon is at all times'. That rule is doubly important for an FAM operating in the close confines of an aircraft. If someone else does get hold of the FAM's firearm, it's not like the pax can run for cover.
I can't think of a single more important rule for a FAM to follow than securing his/her firearm at all times. Failure to do so indicates someone who has lost (or never had) the necessary focus for the job.
I can't think of a single more important rule for a FAM to follow than securing his/her firearm at all times. Failure to do so indicates someone who has lost (or never had) the necessary focus for the job.
Apr 23, 2017, 1:52 pm
#12
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My company has always taken security and safety seriously.
A courier left something in the company men's room once. Keep in mind, this was on a gated compound where every building had to be accessed by badge reader, and within each building, access was limited by internal badge readers. Ordinary members of the public weren't strolling around randomly.
That courier was stripped of his badge and walked off the premises the day he left the item in the men's room. No retraining, no 'second chances'.
A courier left something in the company men's room once. Keep in mind, this was on a gated compound where every building had to be accessed by badge reader, and within each building, access was limited by internal badge readers. Ordinary members of the public weren't strolling around randomly.
That courier was stripped of his badge and walked off the premises the day he left the item in the men's room. No retraining, no 'second chances'.
FIRED. This FAM should be immediately FIRED. As Cholie said about the courier above, no retraining, no second chances, no appeals. FIRED.
Likewise, the LEO who forgot she had a loaded weapon with her when she boarded an international flight from LAX to BNN via TPE should also be FIRED.
As a responsible gun owner, I have the utmost contempt, and tremendous resentment, for those who treat their firearms with such Brobdingnagian carelessness. They are a black eye on the face of the entire gun-owning public.
And as a citizen, I find it unconscionable and utterly unforgivable that a trained law enforcement officer would show such stupidity with regard to the handling of their weapons, whether on or off duty.
FIRED. Nothing less is acceptable.
But it won't happen to either of them. TSA will give their newbie FAM a slap on the wrist. The CSP officer will likely be prosecuted under Taiwanese law, though they'll probably just fine her and let her go, so as not to alienate the US government, and her prosecution and long detainment in Taipei will inspire sympathy back home that will save her from any domestic consequences.
It disgusts me that such idiots wear badges in an ostensibly enlightened nation in the 21st century.
Apr 24, 2017, 6:59 am
#13
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Normally such an occurrence would require separation. However, the service is desperately trying to improve its numbers of female marshals and coming on the heels of another female marshal that was fired, management will be loathe to separate another one so soon. We will see what happens....
Apr 24, 2017, 7:08 am
#14
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There's a longer thread on this incident in the DL forum.
Apr 24, 2017, 8:04 am
#15
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Normally such an occurrence would require separation. However, the service is desperately trying to improve its numbers of female marshals and coming on the heels of another female marshal that was fired, management will be loathe to separate another one so soon. We will see what happens....