FAM left weapon in bathroom of plane

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Old Apr 21, 17, 9:37 am
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FAM left weapon in bathroom of plane

Here

You'll have to read the article as the NY Times has made it impossible to copy text from an article.

This is TSA's comment from another article:

“Accountability is an important aspect of our work,” the spokesman said, “and TSA takes prompt and appropriate action when allegations of misconduct are substantiated.”
To which I would respond "only when it serves their purposes."

And Here
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Old Apr 21, 17, 9:53 am
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Wasn't there a similar incident only the weapon was left in an airport restroom by the FAM in that case?
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Old Apr 21, 17, 10:02 am
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My company has always taken security and safety seriously.

A courier left something in the company men's room once. Keep in mind, this was on a gated compound where every building had to be accessed by badge reader, and within each building, access was limited by internal badge readers. Ordinary members of the public weren't strolling around randomly.

That courier was stripped of his badge and walked off the premises the day he left the item in the men's room. No retraining, no 'second chances'.
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Old Apr 21, 17, 10:12 am
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
Wasn't there a similar incident only the weapon was left in an airport restroom by the FAM in that case?
Yes. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...port_rest.html
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Old Apr 21, 17, 10:26 am
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
My company has always taken security and safety seriously.

A courier left something in the company men's room once. Keep in mind, this was on a gated compound where every building had to be accessed by badge reader, and within each building, access was limited by internal badge readers. Ordinary members of the public weren't strolling around randomly.

That courier was stripped of his badge and walked off the premises the day he left the item in the men's room. No retraining, no 'second chances'.
Well, TSA. Accountability and all that, right?

Edit to add: And passengers who have a gun at the checkpoint are always chastised about responsible people always knowing where their gun is. When are those posters going to pipe up?
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Old Apr 21, 17, 10:44 am
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From The New York Times article linked above:
Excerpts:
***

The passenger gave the weapon to a member of the flight crew, who returned it to the air marshal. But the marshal, who is based in the New York region, failed to report the incident to her superiors, as required by agency policy, until several days later. The incident happened on April 6, aboard a Delta flight from Manchester to Kennedy International Airport.

***

The air marshal who left the weapon unattended, according to people with knowledge of the situation, is a new hire. The T.S.A. declined to provide any additional information.

***

Current and former employees said the episode raised questions about how discipline is handled at the agency. The employees said some air marshals had been forced to resign or had been fired for minor transgressions. “It's a toxic culture and a lack of accountability,” Mr. MacLean said.

***
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Old Apr 21, 17, 8:47 pm
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CNN's story:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/21/politi...oom/index.html

Sources within the Federal Air Marshal Service said the agent in question is a relatively new hire who should have been placed on leave for leaving her gun. Instead, the agent remains on active flight duty, CNN has been told.

A former federal air marshal familiar with the situation told CNN that newly hired air marshals do not currently receive on-the-job training and said this incident might have been avoided if the individual had been paired with a senior air marshal.
Nice. Feel so safe.
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Old Apr 21, 17, 9:10 pm
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I find it funny that some former air Marshall commented in the article that "she wasn't given the appropriate tools to succeed," since she was a new hire and not much training was involved. What tools and training did she need? Common sense to not leave your loaded weapon behind?
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Old Apr 21, 17, 10:22 pm
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Originally Posted by babypuwet View Post
I find it funny that some former air Marshall commented in the article that "she wasn't given the appropriate tools to succeed," since she was a new hire and not much training was involved. What tools and training did she need? Common sense to not leave your loaded weapon behind?
I'm sorry, but I guess I'm not surprised at this sort of thing any more. LEOs and any Federal employee in general seem to be immune from the reality of the real world. In the real world employees are fired for showing up five minutes late for a salaried position or accidentally leaving a document in on the office copier. Not so if you have a magic badge to protect you. You can shoot some one by accident or even in a fit of rage and you'll get a paid vacation and a slap on the wrist with no criminal charges what so ever. Look in the mirror America. You let this happen, and you continue to let it happen.
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Old Apr 22, 17, 9:34 am
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FAM's fly as a group although they don't interact with each other once on the airplane and probably well before boarding. Even being a fairly new FAM doesn't mean they haven't had a good bit of training specific to how FAM's work and I would hazard a guess than all armed LEO know not to leave a weapon unattended somewhere. I would be curious to know how the FAM's are carrying their weapons that requires removal while in a restroom. IWB holster seems likely.

I agree that some kind of discipline is called for. Is this a firing offense or some other punishment would be enough? For a flyer to present at a TSA Screening Checkpoint the fine goes up to $11,000 although I know a guy that was found with 2 guns during one screening and the fine amount was reduced to a much lower number. So wouldn't an $11,000 fine be adequate if there are no other issues involved?
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Old Apr 22, 17, 10:26 am
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I think the number one rule for any firearm owner is 'know where your weapon is at all times'. That rule is doubly important for an FAM operating in the close confines of an aircraft. If someone else does get hold of the FAM's firearm, it's not like the pax can run for cover.

I can't think of a single more important rule for a FAM to follow than securing his/her firearm at all times. Failure to do so indicates someone who has lost (or never had) the necessary focus for the job.
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Old Apr 23, 17, 1:52 pm
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
My company has always taken security and safety seriously.

A courier left something in the company men's room once. Keep in mind, this was on a gated compound where every building had to be accessed by badge reader, and within each building, access was limited by internal badge readers. Ordinary members of the public weren't strolling around randomly.

That courier was stripped of his badge and walked off the premises the day he left the item in the men's room. No retraining, no 'second chances'.
Are those couriers unionized?

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
Well, TSA. Accountability and all that, right?

Edit to add: And passengers who have a gun at the checkpoint are always chastised about responsible people always knowing where their gun is. When are those posters going to pipe up?
How about, like, now:

FIRED. This FAM should be immediately FIRED. As Cholie said about the courier above, no retraining, no second chances, no appeals. FIRED.

Likewise, the LEO who forgot she had a loaded weapon with her when she boarded an international flight from LAX to BNN via TPE should also be FIRED.

As a responsible gun owner, I have the utmost contempt, and tremendous resentment, for those who treat their firearms with such Brobdingnagian carelessness. They are a black eye on the face of the entire gun-owning public.

And as a citizen, I find it unconscionable and utterly unforgivable that a trained law enforcement officer would show such stupidity with regard to the handling of their weapons, whether on or off duty.

FIRED. Nothing less is acceptable.

But it won't happen to either of them. TSA will give their newbie FAM a slap on the wrist. The CSP officer will likely be prosecuted under Taiwanese law, though they'll probably just fine her and let her go, so as not to alienate the US government, and her prosecution and long detainment in Taipei will inspire sympathy back home that will save her from any domestic consequences.

It disgusts me that such idiots wear badges in an ostensibly enlightened nation in the 21st century.
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Old Apr 24, 17, 6:59 am
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Normally such an occurrence would require separation. However, the service is desperately trying to improve its numbers of female marshals and coming on the heels of another female marshal that was fired, management will be loathe to separate another one so soon. We will see what happens....
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Old Apr 24, 17, 7:08 am
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There's a longer thread on this incident in the DL forum.
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Old Apr 24, 17, 8:04 am
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Originally Posted by Section 107 View Post
Normally such an occurrence would require separation. However, the service is desperately trying to improve its numbers of female marshals and coming on the heels of another female marshal that was fired, management will be loathe to separate another one so soon. We will see what happens....
Fired female FAM? Was there a thread?
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