Brussels Attacks - Airport and Metro

Old Mar 22, 16, 4:15 am
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Brussels Attacks - Airport and Metro

From what I saw this morning, it looks like the bad guys blew up a check-in counter area? It's been almost ten years since I was last at BRU, so I couldn't tell for sure.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/22/europe/brussels-explosions/index.html

Here at home, how will the TSA retaliate?
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Old Mar 22, 16, 4:19 am
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Brussels Attacks - Airport and Metro

Oops - Already over on PR and it didn't take more than a couple of posts before the "R" kicked in.
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Old Mar 22, 16, 5:14 am
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much View Post
From what I saw this morning, it looks like the bad guys blew up a check-in counter area? It's been almost ten years since I was last at BRU, so I couldn't tell for sure.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/22/europe...ons/index.html

Here at home, how will the TSA retaliate?
Hopefully, not by deliberately slowing things down even more, so they build up even larger captive helpless crowds. I do not want to even contemplate the chaos if people separated and jammed into lanes suddenly try to stampede for the nearest available exit, wherever it may be.
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Old Mar 22, 16, 5:17 am
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much View Post
Oops - Already over on PR and it didn't take more than a couple of posts before the "R" kicked in.
What's "PR"?
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Old Mar 22, 16, 5:21 am
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much View Post
From what I saw this morning, it looks like the bad guys blew up a check-in counter area? It's been almost ten years since I was last at BRU, so I couldn't tell for sure.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/22/europe...ons/index.html

Here at home, how will the TSA retaliate?
This may provide some insight on how TSA responds to the bomb package(s) manually triggered to go of landside and to land-side suicidal bombers at that too:

Originally Posted by GUWonder
Originally Posted by billybligh View Post
Too soon to suspect that it was a device meant to make it on a plane? Sad.
Tragic indeed.

Terrorists targeting the land-side area (and particularly check-in areas, more so for some airlines than for other airlines) at airports in various parts of Europe has been a concern for quite some time, including particularly for AA. But the focus in that regard at European airports was more on gunmen concerns than on bombs -- which is why there has been more of a governmental show of force with guns land-side than with bomb interdiction means at European airport entrances or check-in counters. [It seems like the explosions land-side were not meant to be explosions on planes. The Brussels metro was also subjected to an explosion.]. When flying AA/US out of Italy, access to check-in line for AA/US (and even BA) was sometimes partially limited to only those who were reviewed by some Italian police types before being allowed to proceed to the check-in counters. There may be more of this coming up.

Those checking in at airports in the EU/Schengen area when flying AA today or this week should check for airline and airport updates on what they should expect today or at least perhaps later this week.
Here's what may come up:

Probably a push for more segregated landslide areas at foreign airports where US airlines' flights' passengers get compacted into a single area to "secure" with more guns for a show of force, of the Italian style mentioned above that included big gun displays.

Perhaps some kind of limited push for creating bottlenecks to enter airport terminal buildings with some more expensive machines supposedly meant to try to interdict IED concerns of the sort that has again gotten focus after today's tragedy. More dogs too.

Making check-in procedures at EU/Schengen airports even worse than they already are.

Double down on hassling passengers at screening checkpoints and more gate-area searches and more haraSSSSment.

The TSA only orders from a menu we've already seen and they do so no matter how bad the menu, no no matter how bad the cooks, no matter how bad the food inputs and outputs have been.

I wouldn't be surprised if some parts of the USG were told to up their protection game yesterday after the Belgian-French security operation over the weekend and on Monday increased the pressure on those involved in the Paris attacks last year and those in the support network for the last known fugitive who escaped and hid for months after those attacks despite being a known face around Europe at least.

Didn't some expect the following: sort of how rats trapped into a corner can sometimes more immediately become a greater danger than before they felt trapped in a corner? Sure, but the world doesn't change on a dime, and being conditioned to respond to everything isn't necessarily always all that effective (as we repeatedly see with the TSA).

It would be interesting to know if the BRU raids (before this airport incident) were on the TSA "intelligence" briefings -- aka news readings -- that some TSA screeners at airports get when huddled together in the airport hallways.

Last edited by GUWonder; Mar 22, 16 at 5:39 am
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Old Mar 22, 16, 5:47 am
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Originally Posted by FLYMSY View Post
What's "PR"?
Omni PR
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Old Mar 22, 16, 5:53 am
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
Hopefully, not by deliberately slowing things down even more, so they build up even larger captive helpless crowds. I do not want to even contemplate the chaos if people separated and jammed into lanes suddenly try to stampede for the nearest available exit, wherever it may be.
The stampede would include all of the clerks as well. Of course, anything landside isn't the TSA's fault -- just ask them.
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Old Mar 22, 16, 5:57 am
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much View Post
Oops - Already over on PR and it didn't take more than a couple of posts before the "R" kicked in.
Oh, my, it is quickly devolving.

The TSA is making passengers standing in line sitting ducks for this kind of an attack. Not that I believe that it will happen here, but one or two intelligent individuals could possibly carry something like this out at one of our airports.

Last edited by essxjay; Mar 22, 16 at 4:44 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
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Old Mar 22, 16, 6:13 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1 View Post
The TSA is making passengers standing in line sitting ducks for this kind of an attack. Not that I believe that it will happen here, but one or two intelligent individuals could possibly carry something like this out at one of our airports.
IIRC, it is legal to open-carry airside in PHX. There have been a couple incidents when an individual exercised his rights to carry at the airport, people got upset, the cops were called - just two different guys exercising their rights, nothing more.

However...what would be the reaction if someone walked into one of these deliberately-overcrowded terminals and fired a gun into the air? It wouldn't take a lot of intelligence (quite the reverse, actually) to really create a mess. It wouldn't even have to be deliberate: it could be someone (maybe even an LE or TSO) who 'forgot' he was carrying until he dropped his gun and it accidentally fired.

The risk is always going to be there, but deliberately creating huge high-risk backups to make a political point is beyond shameful.
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Old Mar 22, 16, 6:43 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1 View Post
The TSA is making passengers standing in line sitting ducks for this kind of an attack. Not that I believe that it will happen here, but one or two intelligent individuals could possibly carry something like this out at one of our airports.
And as the BRU attackers may have done, they caused an explosion at one area and then a bit later hit another area that could be and was used as an entry/exit to escape the area.

Bottlenecks and herd creations make it more easy for criminals and nutcases to attack as if shooting into a barrel full of targets. But the security forces at airports that have these kind of major bottlenecks and herd pens in many places are de facto protecting physical infrastructure more than human lives whether they know it or not.

The BRU suspects on the CCTV feeds are expected have a history of being rather secularized criminal rebel types with a taste for video game playing, drug-dealing, drug-using, getting drunk, stealing, being pimps/johns and engaging in other such behavior that is more a pattern in line with the Paris 2015 attackers than any Friday-Sunday life-long devout religious types. Any guess on which video games they've played? I doubt it was Flight Simulator, as that doesn't focus on public places being used to shoot-up and otherwise kill people.

Last edited by GUWonder; Mar 22, 16 at 6:53 am
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Old Mar 22, 16, 6:48 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
And as the BRU attackers may have done, they caused an explosion at one area and then a bit later hit another area that could be and was used as an entry/exit to escape the area.

Bottlenecks and herd creations make it more easy for criminals and nutcases to attack as if shooting into a barrel full of targets. But the security forces at airports that have these kind of major bottlenecks and herd pens in many places are de facto protecting physical infrastructure more than human lives whether they know it or not.
I don't quite understand the highlighted sentence. Can you explain further?
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Old Mar 22, 16, 6:57 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1 View Post
I don't quite understand the highlighted sentence. Can you explain further?
The airports where there are physical security checks of passengers and their baggage (and even of vehicles transporting passengers/baggage to the airport for check-in with airlines) before either reaches and/or enters the terminal building (or even airport parking) have security forces creating bottlenecks and herds that make it easier to kill and injure a lot of people while protecting the main airport building and planes from getting damaged by attackers.

For example, at some airports in Asia -- SW/Central/South Asia -- they create checkpoints on the road leading to the airport that result in bottlenecks and herds being formed. That helps protect the main airport terminal building(s) and planes from being damaged by attackers but it creates sitting ducks in a proverbial barrel out of all of us human beings formed into a herd at the checkpoint/bottleneck areas.
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Old Mar 22, 16, 7:12 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
The airports where there are physical security checks of passengers and their baggage (and even of vehicles transporting passengers/baggage to the airport for check-in with airlines) before either reaches and/or enters the terminal building (or even airport parking) have security forces creating bottlenecks and herds that make it easier to kill and injure a lot of people while protecting the main airport building and planes from getting damaged by attackers.

For example, at some airports in Asia -- SW/Central/South Asia -- they create checkpoints on the road leading to the airport that result in bottlenecks and herds being formed. That helps protect the main airport terminal building(s) and planes from being damaged by attackers but it creates sitting ducks in a proverbial barrel out of all of us human beings formed into a herd at the checkpoint/bottleneck areas.
Got it - thank you.
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Old Mar 22, 16, 7:14 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
For example, at some airports in Asia -- SW/Central/South Asia -- they create checkpoints on the road leading to the airport that result in bottlenecks and herds being formed. That helps protect the main airport terminal building(s) and planes from being damaged by attackers but it creates sitting ducks in a proverbial barrel out of all of us human beings formed into a herd at the checkpoint/bottleneck areas.
I was just at some of these airports in SE Asia over the past week and have experienced many others.

When you put an initial security checkpoint at the airport doors it creates a large bottleneck outside. Some airports handle this better than others and have found creative ways to reduce the bottlenecks, but you still get a bottleneck somewhere in the system -- especially at peak times.

How about the ETD swab procedures they use in China as you near the check-in areas like at PVG - rope off 30, do 30 ETD swabs, release the group of 30. Again a bottleneck, but how about a more random variation of this?

Would seem to be a better solution aside from "false-positives" on the ETD swabs (false positives in quotes as they are technically positive for the trace material assuming its functioning correctly).

Just thoughts here, as I know there's no easy answers, but I suspect something may change after this in a knee-jerk reaction.

There's also what Rome FCO has done with the high security Terminal 5 for USA departures but that creates problems of its own as well.

SDF
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Old Mar 22, 16, 7:26 am
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Originally Posted by FLYMSY View Post
What's "PR"?
The Omni/PR board is the place on FlyerTalk where politics and religion are discussed, keeping those discussions off the main boards. This is because the topics of politics and religion tend to be incendiary in the extreme.
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