And the Craziness continues

Old Nov 26, 15, 2:49 am
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And the Craziness continues

Woman reports 'dynamite' text; passenger removed from plane

Four passengers were removed from a Chicago-bound flight at Baltimore's international airport last week after a fellow passenger said she saw one of them receive a text with the word "dynamite" and the code for an airport in India, according to a police report.

No such message was found by officers on the passenger's phone, First Sgt. Jonathan Green, spokesman for the Maryland Transportation Authority Police, said Wednesday.
I see no mention of repercussions for the passenger who reported the alleged text message.

The flight crew decided to return to the gate. All passengers were ordered off the plane, and the four passengers the woman pointed out, three men and a woman, were detained for investigation, the report said.
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Old Nov 26, 15, 8:41 am
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Originally Posted by FredAnderssen View Post
Woman reports 'dynamite' text; passenger removed from plane



I see no mention of repercussions for the passenger who reported the alleged text message.
Therein lies the rub. It goes to her motive and intent. Was it an honest mistake, was it racially motivated, an out and out lie, a mental problem, a drinking or drug issue, and so on and so on? Not hard to understand a certain amount of paranoia, it's not like the news hasn't been full of warnings and reminders to be aware and watchful. That's not at all to excuse or explain the passenger's behavior, barring any other report only she knows her motives and reasons. We're caught between minding our own business, being reasonable prudent and observative, and overreacting.

NOTE: Just watching CNN and they had a report from New York. One of the main points made over and over again was New York's "See Something, Say Something" anti-terrorist/terrorism campaign. Where and how do you draw the line?

Last edited by Randyk47; Nov 26, 15 at 12:04 pm
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Old Nov 27, 15, 7:12 am
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Makes me want to get up and sing the national anthem on my next flight.

♫ And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air
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Old Nov 27, 15, 7:17 am
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Originally Posted by Randyk47 View Post
NOTE: Just watching CNN and they had a report from New York. One of the main points made over and over again was New York's "See Something, Say Something" anti-terrorist/terrorism campaign. Where and how do you draw the line?
As is often the case, Bruce Schneier said it best, back in 2007.

https://www.schneier.com/essays/arch...the_war_o.html

If you ask amateurs to act as front-line security personnel, you shouldn't be surprised when you get amateur security.

We need to do two things. The first is to stop urging people to report their fears. People have always come forward to tell the police when they see something genuinely suspicious, and should continue to do so. But encouraging people to raise an alarm every time they're spooked only squanders our security resources and makes no one safer.
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Old Nov 30, 15, 2:57 pm
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My wife speaks Hebrew. I wonder what would happen if a passenger overheard her speaking Hebrew with her parents?

Oh, one other thing: There is no freakin' way that that passenger knew that BLR was the code for Bengaluru. None. Zero. Zip.

Mike
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Old Nov 30, 15, 9:22 pm
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Originally Posted by mikeef View Post
My wife speaks Hebrew. I wonder what would happen if a passenger overheard her speaking Hebrew with her parents?

Oh, one other thing: There is no freakin' way that that passenger knew that BLR was the code for Bengaluru. None. Zero. Zip.

Mike
Bang a lore. Bang = the sound of a gun or explosion. I tell no lore this time.

As we know, Hebrew is a Semitic language and so is Arabic. If the Hebrew-speaker is ethnically Persian -- whether Jewish or not -- fireworks could start if the person speaks of Yom Teruah, which is the day of the blasting/shouting of the shofar. The same could happen even if the ethnic Persian doesn't speak Hebrew but says the same thing in talking about a holiday.

A little ignorance can be a very dangerous thing, more so when the paranoid ignorants are being empowered -- as increasingly evident at airports and on airplanes these past few weeks, but also as evident elsewhere.
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Old Nov 30, 15, 10:03 pm
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When I was in high school, we had a bomb alert one day. Alarms, everyone evacuated, stood around for a while, back to class.

It happened a few more times over the next couple weeks, then it stopped.

Of course, a couple years later a departing teacher clued us in: the phoned in threats hadn't stopped and they had never caught anyone. The school couldn't just keep evacuating every time.

That's one of my concerns about this 'see something, say something' stuff. All too often, it is paired with zero tolerance, with blowing every tiny thing up into a potential catastrophic threat, reinforced by encouraging people to keep coming forward with this trivia, even if their motivations are attention-seeking, stupidity, misunderstanding, revenge, paranoia...

At some point, when we've chased down too many false alarms, we'll have to pull back - and that's when we're most at risk of dismissing something we really should be paying attention to.
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Old Dec 1, 15, 6:12 am
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Originally Posted by mikeef View Post
My wife speaks Hebrew. I wonder what would happen if a passenger overheard her speaking Hebrew with her parents?

Oh, one other thing: There is no freakin' way that that passenger knew that BLR was the code for Bengaluru. None. Zero. Zip.

Mike
They will freak out, unfortunately. Especially if your wife is Israeli and has strong Semetic features (dark eyes and hair).

Most Americans still stupidly believe all Jews or Hebrew speaking people look European or have lighter features (ashekenaz Jews) much like they assume all Muslims have dark eyes and hair (ever been to Bosnia?). The opposite of Europe where they know their Jews can have any hair or eye color, they have huge numbers of Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews, in addition to Ashekenaz and a good number intermarry.

It is propaganda by the anti-terrorist brigade to keep an eye on people who look different from you due to paranoia. I live in the Midwest, and my family and I get this mistrust because we are lighter skin Mexicans and have a certain look (because all Mexicans are suppose to be short and dark with flatter faces....stereotypes are fun!)......

Last edited by FateSucks; Dec 1, 15 at 6:21 am
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Old Dec 1, 15, 6:32 am
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Revolving door incident keeps passenger off flight

Due to the screwiness of the NY Times site, I can't copy and paste a quote from the article.

However, a passenger, an attorney from Texas, was not allowed to board a flight because he allegedly cut off a crew member in a revolving door when arriving at the airport.
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Old Dec 1, 15, 8:35 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1 View Post
Revolving door incident keeps passenger off flight

Due to the screwiness of the NY Times site, I can't copy and paste a quote from the article.

However, a passenger, an attorney from Texas, was not allowed to board a flight because he allegedly cut off a crew member in a revolving door when arriving at the airport.
I read the article and it sounds like a personal vendetta by a crew member because of a perceived slight. Also sounds like the airline recognized it as "abuse of power" by the crew member. Hopefully the airline did something about the crew member's actions with the crew member.
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Old Dec 1, 15, 9:49 am
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
When I was in high school, we had a bomb alert one day. Alarms, everyone evacuated, stood around for a while, back to class.

It happened a few more times over the next couple weeks, then it stopped.

Of course, a couple years later a departing teacher clued us in: the phoned in threats hadn't stopped and they had never caught anyone. The school couldn't just keep evacuating every time.

That's one of my concerns about this 'see something, say something' stuff. All too often, it is paired with zero tolerance, with blowing every tiny thing up into a potential catastrophic threat, reinforced by encouraging people to keep coming forward with this trivia, even if their motivations are attention-seeking, stupidity, misunderstanding, revenge, paranoia...

At some point, when we've chased down too many false alarms, we'll have to pull back - and that's when we're most at risk of dismissing something we really should be paying attention to.
That likely explains why airport screeners have not improved at tests. In the early years of post 9/11 test success rate high and that rate has decreased to nearly zero over time.
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Old Dec 1, 15, 10:39 am
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Originally Posted by gingersnaps View Post
That likely explains why airport screeners have not improved at tests. In the early years of post 9/11 test success rate high and that rate has decreased to nearly zero over time.
People can not maintain a state of 100% focused red alert for long periods of time.

It's even more difficult when you are trying to maintain a state of ready alertness while looking over your shoulder and carrying on personal conversations with co-workers and playing with your cellphone with barking co-workers and overly-loud taped messages blaring in the background.

Perfect place to test someone's powers of concentration. TSA does nothing to make it easier for their folks to stay focused, ie, ban barking, personal conversations and cellphones at the checkpoint.
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Old Dec 1, 15, 10:51 am
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
People can not maintain a state of 100% focused red alert for long periods of time.

It's even more difficult when you are trying to maintain a state of ready alertness while looking over your shoulder and carrying on personal conversations with co-workers and playing with your cellphone with barking co-workers and overly-loud taped messages blaring in the background.

Perfect place to test someone's powers of concentration. TSA does nothing to make it easier for their folks to stay focused, ie, ban barking, personal conversations and cellphones at the checkpoint.
I've seen the same behaviors in emergency rooms where I've been regular or on call staff. You need good supervisors who stay on top of the situation though even they can get sucked into it.
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Old Dec 1, 15, 11:11 am
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Originally Posted by gingersnaps View Post
That likely explains why airport screeners have not improved at tests. In the early years of post 9/11 test success rate high and that rate has decreased to nearly zero over time.
Serious question.

What evidence is there that TSA did better job at detection in the early years after 9/11/2001? I have never seen any such documentation although I am not suggesting that such doesn't exist.
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Old Dec 1, 15, 11:33 am
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
People can not maintain a state of 100% focused red alert for long periods of time.

It's even more difficult when you are trying to maintain a state of ready alertness while looking over your shoulder and carrying on personal conversations with co-workers and playing with your cellphone with barking co-workers and overly-loud taped messages blaring in the background.

Perfect place to test someone's powers of concentration. TSA does nothing to make it easier for their folks to stay focused, ie, ban barking, personal conversations and cellphones at the checkpoint.

In the context of "false-alarms" or "boy who cried wolf"; it is plausible that this has contributed to the documented reduction of detection success rates.

Do you remember what is was like trying to drop off someone at the airport on November 2001, "tuck and roll grandpa" was about all one could do. Now, some decade later, you can leave you car on a curb and about no one gives much of any concern.

I have seen passengers leave their carry on bags in a line walk away for 10 and then question why anyone complained.
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