Originally Posted by chollie (Post 28596987)

Should Caitlynn Jenner, pre-surgery, have her breasts handled as a woman's or a man's? Should a female screener have the right to refuse to grope someone like Caitlynn Jenner, pre-surgery?

Are male screeners even trained to lift, separate, cup and squeeze? They do have to handle heterosexual males with breasts, I'm sure.

Personally, I don't think a screener should have the right to refuse to screen a pax whose gender they don't identify with. If a pre-surgery Caitlyn Jenner, with full breasts, a bra, and a penis identifies as a woman and wants to be groped by a woman, it should be her choice, including to have the grope in public. TSA assures us there is nothing remotely sexual about the grope, so to any properly trained, professional screener, it's just a living piece of baggage.

Originally Posted by petaluma1 (Post 28841759)

We all know that the onerous new "pat down" procedure and checking of electronics, food and books are designed to get passengers into PreCheck and nothing more. Trans individuals seem to suffer more than others at the hands of the TSA.

My question: can individuals who are in the process of transitioning from one gender to another eligible for PreCheck or would they be denied due to conflicts with birth certificates and current gender - or any other reason TSA could come up with to deny PreCheck status.

Originally Posted by petaluma1 (Post 28841759)

We all know that the onerous new "pat down" procedure and checking of electronics, food and books are designed to get passengers into PreCheck and nothing more. Trans individuals seem to suffer more than others at the hands of the TSA.

My question: can individuals who are in the process of transitioning from one gender to another eligible for PreCheck or would they be denied due to conflicts with birth certificates and current gender - or any other reason TSA could come up with to deny PreCheck status.

Originally Posted by Skatering (Post 28842041)

I mean, hypothetically no, but I guess people could be rejected under the catch-all of 'cannot satisfy us of low-risk status'.

My transgender status is always sitting in the background of applications, but it seldom even comes up. CBP never mentioned it for my Global Entry interview. Canadian visa officer I was interviewed by asked one question about it but really couldn't care less.

If people have personal prejudices against transgender people, they often don't manifest themselves when they meet one in the flesh and realise we're pretty normal people.

Originally Posted by Skatering (Post 28934412)

Possible interesting development with the nude-o-scopes...

Been through LGW body scanners twice this month (so yeah, a poor sample size) and on neither occasion did I receive a little square in the groin area.

Previously, every body scanner has done this (along with numerous other squares which nicely hides it). I'm wondering if the manufacturer has performed some kind of firmware update to stop alarming on genitals irrespective of the gender the operative selects.

I'll have to see how it goes, but if this has happened, it'll be a big improvement for me. As it stands, flying with people who don't know I'm trans or travelling to non-friendly countries who use the NOS has often been too much of a risk.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 28934560)

How often do your fly?

Originally Posted by Skatering (Post 28937616)

Averages out at around 40 times a year.

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But it’s not actually possible to “fly as you identify” as long as the Transportation Security Administration screening process relies on the idea of binary gender. As the T.S.A.’s own guidelines state, “When you enter the imaging portal, the T.S.A. agent presses a button designating a gender (male/female) based on how you present yourself” — that is, how the agent perceives you as presenting yourself. This selection triggers expectations that guide the screening process. If, for example, an agent presses the pink “female” button for someone wearing boxers, an alarm will be triggered on the scanner, because loose fabric around the crotch of a female body is considered unexpectedly gender nonconforming. A compression shirt on the chest of someone for whom an agent presses the blue “male” button can do the same. Once gender has been chosen, the machine proceeds on expectations about anatomy. A transgender passenger who passes — who is correctly read by the T.S.A. agent as the gender the person identifies as — but who has different genitalia will trigger an alarm. Intersex people may have ambiguous genitalia that trigger alarms and require invasive pat-downs every time.

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I identify as genderqueer. Last week, I had just stepped through the scanner at Boston Logan International Airport when I heard the T.S.A. agent shout, “I think we pressed the wrong button!” He had shouted so loudly, I assumed he was talking about someone else. But then he spoke again, directly to me, avoiding my gaze. “Go through again,” he said. The long line behind me halted as I walked back into the scanner and assumed the position: arms up, legs spread. I waited, painfully aware that the others passengers were staring at me. Did they know what was happening? Did they know what the agent meant by “the button?”

***

Then I noticed the agent’s expression shift. He looked as miserable and uncomfortable as I felt. I turned around. On the screen was the outline of a person, arms up, with just one little yellow box of irregularity — the “alarm.” It was right over my crotch. I shouldn’t need to tell you that the pat-down that followed was invasive and humiliating, just as I shouldn’t have had to endure it.

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I identified myself as transgender, thinking it would help them recall that training I hoped they had gotten. The word transgender just seemed clearer. Besides, I didn't fancy trying to explain my nonbinary gender identity to a bunch of government officials at 7 a.m. I just wanted to be as accommodating as possible. Unfortunately, my willingness to openly discuss my genitals didn't assuage their suspicions. So my penis underwent its first pat-down of the day, but was still regarded as an anomaly and a threat. So I was handed off to another agent, for a full body pat-down, which was... very thorough.

This new agent was sympathetic. They expressed themselves as an ally of the LGBT community, and gave me agency in how my body was handled during the pat-down. I felt respected. They did a full body pat-down, and then cleared and released me.

Then, their supervisor intervened. The supervisor informed me that policy dictated that I be taken into a private room, and that they would use the front of their hands on my penis to confirm that it was actually a penis.

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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 33131169)

It's been a while for an incident of this kind to make the news cycle. With gender selectors, man or woman, on the Whole Body Scanners I see no solution other than continued gropes of breasts and crotches. I'd be interested in hearing TSA's proposed solution. Also, exactly how can an anomaly of this type be resolved without a grope even though TSA claims to not grope genitals, just "resistance"?

A trans woman said she was stopped by airport security after scanners flagged her body parts as 'an anomaly

Originally Posted by PlatinumScum (Post 33522042)

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/26/us/tr...tsa/index.html

Nice the see the LEO's reaction.

Originally Posted by PlatinumScum (Post 33522042)

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/26/us/tr...tsa/index.html

Nice the see the LEO's reaction.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 33522185)

They didn't get to fly which is wrong. I really question the accuracy of TSA's Whole Body Image devices. I flew 4 legs in July, screened by WTMD once and the remainder by WBI. I was wearing a tennis shirt and lightweight slacks over boxer briefs. Each time the WBI alarmed on my arms and legs. In my opinion that suggests something is off with these devices and it wasn't gender selection issues in my case. I hope the people win their case.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 33522185)

They didn't get to fly which is wrong. I really question the accuracy of TSA's Whole Body Image devices. I flew 4 legs in July, screened by WTMD once and the remainder by WBI. I was wearing a tennis shirt and lightweight slacks over boxer briefs. Each time the WBI alarmed on my arms and legs. In my opinion that suggests something is off with these devices and it wasn't gender selection issues in my case. I hope the people win their case.

Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 33524945)

Yup, the detectors have a very narrow view of "normal". I'm one of those strange individuals that actually uses the pocket in my shirt. Of course the pocket is empty when I go through the scanner but since my phone is there most of the time it's got a bit of sag in the material that the scanner frequently flags. Being male it's no big deal but it shows how narrow the view is. I've even had TSA officials say that it's triggering because the phone stretched the fabric a bit.

Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 33537329)

Is much the same kind of thing happening to some CIS women whose front pant pocket is stretched out by sticking a phone in it a lot? Sticking the phone in back pockets seems rather common, but some stick them into front pockets to try to limit the chance of sitting on the phone or of the phone being stolen by a pickpocket.