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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   TSA disarms sock monkey. Flying public safe again (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1529180-tsa-disarms-sock-monkey-flying-public-safe-again.html)

Boggie Dog Dec 10, 2013 8:47 am


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 21938623)
Why would <deleted. have any ability to answer this question? I seriously doubt he has access to the chain of command to know what disciplinary action (if any) is taken against another TSO --- much less have the ability to repeat that information in a public forum. (Look at how many times the official TSA representatives fail to answer questions about personnel actions --- and those are the folks who actually know what's going on.)

I'm a little disturbed by how much this thread has become about <deleted> and his responses (or lack thereof) regarding this incident. Shouldn't this thread be about the sock monkey?

[Four pages in, and nobody's made the obvious joke about sock puppets ... sheesh ...]

I suspect you know as well as everyone else that no one really expects <deleted> to answer most (all) of the questions asked. It's just a continuation of the ongoing rhetoric of TSA and its inability to respond to concerns of the public.

If <deleted> was a TSA sock puppet (jury is still out) then I think we would get some answers, just not honest ones.

Caradoc Dec 10, 2013 8:47 am


Originally Posted by chollie (Post 21938942)
You're right, of course, but it would be great if once in a while <delted> (or any other TWO) could point out that Bob is addressing the matter or SSI directives are being updated and all personnel 'educated' so this doesn't happen again.

To what end? Would you actually believe anyone from the TSA when they say that it won't happen again?

Need we mention the urine incident(s) again?

Caradoc Dec 10, 2013 8:50 am


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 21938951)
It's just a continuation of the ongoing rhetoric of TSA and its inability to respond to concerns of the public.

I would have said "failure," rather than "inability." It's not a certainty that the TSA is unable to respond. It is certain that they have not. Whether this indicates an inability or an unwillingness (or both) remains to be seen.

Note that this observation doesn't apply to <deleted>. His failure to respond is pretty clear.

Boggie Dog Dec 10, 2013 8:55 am


Originally Posted by chollie (Post 21938942)
You're right, of course, but it would be great if once in a while <deleted> (or any other TWO) could point out that Bob is addressing the matter or SSI directives are being updated and all personnel 'educated' so this doesn't happen again.

Unfortunately, I Bet if I went through the same checkpoint with the same item tomorrow while the same screener was working, I'd get the same result.:(

I posted a comment on the TSA Blog asking some questions about this incident. My comment was censored even though it complied fully with the illegal TSA posting guidelines.

Never expect honesty or compliance with the Constitution by anyone associated with TSA.

gsoltso Dec 10, 2013 9:06 am


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 21937903)
Are Disney Pirates of the Caribbean plastic toy swords realistic replicas?

Not based on my training and opinion.


Originally Posted by Carl Johnson (Post 21938053)
No, it wasn't a functioning cap gun. Who would be shooting it?

So <deleeted>, is the clerk that didn't pay attention to the training and thus failed to follow the rules going to be fired?

Anyone with access to it could theoretically fire a functioning capgun.

I do not know of any kind of address being done at this time, remember, I am a frontliner, not an HQ guru.


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 21938623)
Why would <deleted> have any ability to answer this question? I seriously doubt he has access to the chain of command to know what disciplinary action (if any) is taken against another TSO --- much less have the ability to repeat that information in a public forum. (Look at how many times the official TSA representatives fail to answer questions about personnel actions --- and those are the folks who actually know what's going on.)

I'm a little disturbed by how much this thread has become about <deleted> and his responses (or lack thereof) regarding this incident. Shouldn't this thread be about the sock monkey?

[Four pages in, and nobody's made the obvious joke about sock puppets ... sheesh ...]

That seems to be a common trend when I post...

I am not certain that most of those sock monkey jokes would make it past the moderators here!


Originally Posted by chollie (Post 21938942)
You're right, of course, but it would be great if once in a while <deleted> (or any other TWO) could point out that Bob is addressing the matter or SSI directives are being updated and all personnel 'educated' so this doesn't happen again.

Unfortunately, I Bet if I went through the same checkpoint with the same item tomorrow while the same screener was working, I'd get the same result.:(

The problem with that, is that most of the time, I do not know the response any quicker than most of you folks here. I wish I were in a position to distribute more timely information in some cases, but I am just not that high up the food chain.

Sadly, you may be right.

jkhuggins Dec 10, 2013 9:11 am


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 21938951)
I suspect you know as well as everyone else that no one really expects <deleted> to answer most (all) of the questions asked. It's just a continuation of the ongoing rhetoric of TSA and its inability to respond to concerns of the public.

Then why pick on <deleted>? He's been more forthright and participatory here than a number of his colleagues ... I'd think we'd want to encourage his sort of behavior rather than ask him unanswerable questions and then blame him for refusing to defend the indefensible ...


Originally Posted by chollie (Post 21938942)
You're right, of course, but it would be great if once in a while <deleted> (or any other TWO) could point out that Bob is addressing the matter or SSI directives are being updated and all personnel 'educated' so this doesn't happen again.


Originally Posted by Caradoc (Post 21938953)
To what end? Would you actually believe anyone from the TSA when they say that it won't happen again?

Precisely. I seriously doubt the issue here is with documents or policies, but with how they play out at the checkpoint. Talk is cheap; what we need is observed changes in behavior.

Caradoc Dec 10, 2013 9:17 am


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 21939110)
Talk is cheap; what we need is observed changes in behavior.

I think you may just have hit on why people treat <deleted> as the TSAs whipping boy.

For everything he's ever said about how things are supposed to be, they never seem to go that direction...

Carl Johnson Dec 10, 2013 9:51 am


Originally Posted by Caradoc (Post 21938806)
We're not talking about a shirt on a sock monkey. We're talking about the TSA's use of their own mysterious "SSI" rules to steal, er, ah, confiscate, uh, hmmm, "appropriate" items for their own use.

The comment was about a shirt with a logo on it that the TSA would then confiscate because it had a "realistic representation of a fictional weapon" on it, i.e., a two-inch lightsaber logo.

Right, a shirt. Not a sail. Not a circus tent. How could they think it could fit them?

gsoltso Dec 10, 2013 10:09 am


Originally Posted by Caradoc (Post 21939169)
I think you may just have hit on why people treat <deleted> as the TSAs whipping boy.

For everything he's ever said about how things are supposed to be, they never seem to go that direction...

I do my best to tell you how it is supposed to be, because I also do my best to try and do it that way all day, every day. I may never make an impression or change on a large scale, but I do what I can within my limited sphere of influence. By posting it here (as well as other locations), I hope that some folks that work for TSA may take something positive away from it - such as not to create a scene over a tiny little quarter sized plastic gun. It also lets more people know that when things are not done right, they can file complaints (I understand that is an area providing opportunity for improvement at our agency) and get more information into the system for redress.

At the same time, keep in mind that I have very limited information I can give out here - 99% of the time I am informed of things at the same time you folks are. I am not going to disclose SSI, but I am going to continue to comment on how I think that a passenger should not have had a hard time taking the item that is the subject of this thread, through a checkpoint.

Caradoc Dec 10, 2013 10:10 am


Originally Posted by Carl Johnson (Post 21939377)
Right, a shirt. Not a sail. Not a circus tent. How could they think it could fit them?

I've seen more than a few that a regular shirt might fit.

They're the skinny, weaselly-looking ones.

Caradoc Dec 10, 2013 10:13 am


Originally Posted by gsoltso (Post 21939513)
At the same time, keep in mind that I have very limited information I can give out here - 99% of the time I am informed of things at the same time you folks are.

If true, that explains much about why the TSA "employees" at the checkpoint are at least as confused as the traveling public.

And "SSI" is nonsense. Utter nonsense. Pure "what makes the roses bloom" nonsense. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. "SSI" is merely an excuse for thieves, thugs, and morons to make up "policy" out of whole cloth and maintain plausible deniability.

Filing complaints about the TSA with the TSA is like micturating in a vector contrary to the prevailing meteorological conditions.

halls120 Dec 10, 2013 10:21 am


Originally Posted by Caradoc (Post 21939552)
If true, that explains much about why the TSA "employees" at the checkpoint are at least as confused as the traveling public.

And "SSI" is nonsense. Utter nonsense. Pure "what makes the roses bloom" nonsense. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. "SSI" is merely an excuse for thieves, thugs, and morons to make up "policy" out of whole cloth and maintain plausible deniability.

Filing complaints about the TSA with the TSA is like micturating in a vector contrary to the prevailing meteorological conditions.

If you knew the mid to upper echelons of TSA management, you'd understand just why TSA is the way it is. To call most of them as dumb as a box of rocks would be unfair to rocks.

Caradoc Dec 10, 2013 10:24 am


Originally Posted by halls120 (Post 21939606)
If you knew the mid to upper echelons of TSA management, you'd understand just why TSA is the way it is. To call most of them as dumb as a box of rocks would be unfair to rocks.

That's obvious to anyone observing their "operations."

It's equally obvious to anyone observing the employees "working" on those "operations."

Boggie Dog Dec 10, 2013 10:34 am


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 21939110)
Then why pick on <deleted>? He's been more forthright and participatory here than a number of his colleagues ... I'd think we'd want to encourage his sort of behavior rather than ask him unanswerable questions and then blame him for refusing to defend the indefensible ..

Precisely. I seriously doubt the issue here is with documents or policies, but with how they play out at the checkpoint. Talk is cheap; what we need is observed changes in behavior.

Honest answer? <deleted> is an easy target from an agency that has a dismal record of dealing with the public.

For the record I don't think a claim that I picked on <deleted> in this thread can be made.

InkUnderNails Dec 10, 2013 11:31 am


Originally Posted by Caradoc (Post 21939552)
If true, that explains much about why the TSA "employees" at the checkpoint are at least as confused as the traveling public.

And "SSI" is nonsense. Utter nonsense. Pure "what makes the roses bloom" nonsense. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. "SSI" is merely an excuse for thieves, thugs, and morons to make up "policy" out of whole cloth and maintain plausible deniability.

Filing complaints about the TSA with the TSA is like micturating in a vector contrary to the prevailing meteorological conditions.

I want that on a T-shirt.


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