SNA1K

My wife and I are traveling this morning and went to the usual Pre line in Terminal 1. We were amazed at the number of people in line after the ID check--probably about 50. We went ahead and scanned--I go the three beeps, she got pulled for full screening.

As I waited in line for Pre more people were added so chatting them up find that they are regular folks who didn't even know what Pre was. Needless to say they are still pulling everything out and just slowing down the Pre line completely.

My wife, who has had the full background and interview process for her GE/Pre, unlike everyone around me who was in the Pre line, had to go through the regular screening and actually ended up clearing BEFORE me. I find that completely inexcusable.

How do the masses get to use Pre, and someone who has background not? For the record the guy in front of me at the ID check was also pulled to regular screening.

TSA -- this is bass ackward... You took the ONLY good thing you have done in the past 12 years and completely F-ed it up.

usafwso

I gave up on Pre Check long ago, and I have a NEXUS card!

chollie

I don't know if it was temporary or not (didn't look like it - signs were nowhere to be seen), but on my last trip through PHX T3, the elite lane was gone. A TSO was stationed at the entry to the maze, so I asked. He said "No elite lane, no pre-Check, it's all one.

I hope TSA isn't going to force a merge between the elite lane and the pre- line, or eliminate a dedicated elite lane all together. The elite lane have nothing to do with being vetted or background checks - it's an airline perk. It's also a perk whose numbers are relatively limited generally, unlike Pre lines that are being arbitrarily filled with non-pre pax. I'm concerned TSA will go this route (merge/eliminate dedicated elite lines to 'incentivize' FFs to pony up for Pre. Right now, depending on the airport, the elite line is faster/more convenient that the pre-lines and it doesn't cost anything extra for a FF. Eliminate the line and the FFs will soon have no choice but to pony up for pre-.

Don't get me wrong - I think pre- should be the default security process for everyone. The NoS should be scrapped entirely, and secondaries should be a combination of wanding and patting (not groping).

Nevertheless, if TSA is trying to get more pax to pony up $85 for Pre, I'm not sure the best way to do that is to hand the service out for free whenever the lines get long (exactly when paying customers want to be able to count on Pre).

BubbaLoop

Everyone should be screened using Pre standards. That would solve situations such as the one you describe.

bizorbetter

Sorry, you are saying that people from the regular screening line were sent to the pre service and didn't have to remove shoes, liquids etc and no MMW scan? I'm sure i have that wrong?

I know sometimes at LAS they will allow some pax to simply get the metal detector and not the scan but i have never seen them get to use the pre procedure.

BTW some airports were to test allowing certain individuals deemed to be less of a risk as assessed by the tsa agents at the airport......?? could that have been going on? (they were supposed to do this at TPA but i have never seen it happen)

chollie

Right now, things are all over the place, but yes, some folks are getting directed to the full pre- experience - no quick interrogation by a TSO, no dog sniffing, just directed over based on an undisclosed criteria.

bizorbetter

WOW...i have not seen this and i know there is/was a pilot project to identify people in line but like i said i have not seen it.

As someone who is OK with high level screening (actually i opt out if i don't get the three beeps as well) I find that mind boggling. It will certainly support those that are looking for 'pre type' screening for everyone.

You have seen this first hand? Because I find it highly unlikely......but who knows

chollie

Yes, I have seen it first hand.

Of course, if I had posted a month ago that I witnessed first hand a 9-year-old kid go through screening without even presenting a boarding pass, you probably wouldn't have believed me - but it happened - even TSA has admitted it happened. Perhaps its the only time it has ever happened - but we don't know, do we?

I'm glad you 'walk the talk' in your support for 'high level screening' by opting out. There are well-documented deficiencies in the NoS that a thorough grope can detect. You improve public aviation safety by willingly submitting to a more thorough screening.

cottonmather0

I noticed this last week flying out of BOS. There were people feeding into the Pre- lane from the regular security lines, probably 2-3 times more. I wasn't in the regular line, so I don't know what the criteria was for them to get picked. All I know is that I went through the Pre- gate next to the TDC and there were people merging ahead of me from the regular lines.

It wasn't horribly slow, but it was slower than it has been in the past, because a.) more people and b.) most of the new people had no idea what was going on and were still emptying laptops and shoes and having to be corrected.

debua1k

I flew out of LAS Terminal 3 this morning and they were sending random folk from the regular line to the PreCheck line (which had moved from the left hand side of the checkpoint to the right hand side). The folks were very excited that they did not have to remove their shoes or laptops. Unfortunately for us folks that ponied up the cash and passed the background check, the line was about 20 people or so. Kinda sucked for me... But, I agree, it should be that way for everyone...

I did ask the "smurf" why and she said that they changed it this week and to expect these lines to expand to 6 lanes, with more and more people being directed to these lines.

SNA_Flyer

Same thing at LAX T4. They were sending PriorityAccess customers into the precheck lane - the PA lane next to it was closed. Must be some new trend.

bizorbetter

Where to start?.....1) i have an option of 'opting out' as per the rules, 2) i do it for a different reason than you would think, 3) I have never seen such well documented documentation but there very well might be, it doesn't alter the strength of my opinion/arguments......

Anyhow it sounds like you are getting what you want by having more people migrating to the PRE line so you should be happy.....as for those who have submitted to the PRE paperwork it is not right to see random people pulled into the same line......but of course you would disagree

chollie

You might start by reading my posts.

You seem to present opinions as fact and then bridle when someone asks for support for your 'facts'. You make some odd assumptions and then bristle when asked to further explain those assumptions (because someone doesn't understand the basis for your thinking).

I have no idea why you 'opt out' and I haven't the faintest idea why you think you know what I or anyone else would 'think' is the reason. I've seen plenty of reasons for 'opting out', both on this board and in the news, all equally valid, IMHO. If you said you opt out because you like to wear short shirts and you are self-conscious about raising your arms and exposing your belly - guess what, I've heard that one before.

I don't use Pre. I always get selected for the NoS. I am an involuntary medical opt-out; because I am physically incapable of assuming and holding the position for a good scan, I always get a grope and (almost always) bag search. It doesn't matter if everyone goes through the Pre line - it won't change my experience.

I'm not sure what your point is. First you dispute (because you haven't personally witnessed it, apparently) that 'random' people are ever pulled out of the regular line and sent to Pre. Now you seem to have an issue with it happening. Why? TSA has always said they take a 'multi-layered' approach to security. If one 'layer' is the Pre- program and another 'layer' is pulling people judged to be 'low risk' from the regular line for Pre-, don't you trust TSA's judgment? Perhaps the TSOs doing the selecting are BDOs.

I, like others, including those who work in the field (including the former head of TSA, Kip Hawley), think some of what is done contributes nothing to security. I trust the judgment of those who work in the field, and I'm sure Kip Hawley had access to far more classified information than I do. Their attitude seems to be that "greater inconvenience does not necessarily equal greater security". I agree with that.

DeafBlonde

Ok, let me get this straight...tell me if I am wrong.

None of those people who were "randomly selected" to go to the PreCheck line voiced any objection, saying they would feel more comfortable or more safe going throught what is now considered the normal rigamarole of security (i.e., liquids/laptops out of the carry on, shoes off, everything--I MEAN EVERYTHING!--out of the pockets, coats off, no ties, no belts, no outerwear--WHATSOEVER!, stand in the Nude-o-Scope in the "I surrender" position...)?

Really??

bizorbetter

i would agree that posts are not being read. Maybe people are on differant levels.

I couldn't disagree more. Some facts do not require proof, they are common sense. I and don't believe i have 'bridled' once?



I didn't dispute it, i was shocked by it. And yes i think pre should only be for people with the proper background/paperwork/procedures etc in place. I have also been clear that "another 'layer' is pulling people judged to be 'low risk' from the regular line" (your words) comes down to the cost/benefit of the risk of doing so and the public benefit (or loss) is a convenience and economic issue.

I was also the one who mentioned that i knew TSA was going to test that type of system.

None of what i say is contradicting, hard to follow, or confusing IMHO.

I believe in tougher screening. I believe that easier screening leads to a higher POTENTIAL risk. I believe in PRE but not the random pulling of non-pre pax. I understand the cost/benefit issues of appeasing those of you who want pre type screening for all and thus we all can't have it the way we want it. I understand that we need to find better ways to do screening. AND i agree with the comment (i believe it was yours) that as a country of such wealth and intelligence we should be able to find a better way to do this. I aslo believe those ideas are being studied.

So i'm sorry that i seem to be a thorn here and on the other thread but i think i have been very clear and refute your claim otherwise.

People are allowed to have opinions other than the ones you might espouse.

cheers

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