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TSA Allowed To Make Local Rules?

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Old Apr 26, 2013 | 1:12 pm
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Originally Posted by lamont2718
TSA can be inconsistent and random. This is partially by design and does not decrease credibility but rather enhances security. Unpredictability in security procedures is a key element of TSA's approach. They have also been open about this -- you'll find the following language at tsa.gov: "TSA will always incorporate random and unpredictable security measures throughout the airport."

For those who want to read more, I would recommend this WSJ op-ed by the former head of TSA. (Quote: "Predictability is deadly.")
The TSA is so inconsistent that it decreases its credibility and undermines security.

Predictability is deadly only when the predictability is lousy and involves a fatal outcome. In other words, the lack of predictably is deadly when it comes to the TSA's inconsistent performance with the fundamental objectice of contraband WEI interdiction. Until the TSA becomes very predictable in the basics, its "random and unpredictable" measures are part of the voodoo security dog and pony show that harasses the innocent for no good reason.
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Old Apr 26, 2013 | 2:20 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
The TSA is so inconsistent that it decreases its credibility and undermines security.

Predictability is deadly only when the predictability is lousy and involves a fatal outcome. In other words, the lack of predictably is deadly when it comes to the TSA's inconsistent performance with the fundamental objectice of contraband WEI interdiction. Until the TSA becomes very predictable in the basics, its "random and unpredictable" measures are part of the voodoo security dog and pony show that harasses the innocent for no good reason.
Many of us understand the role that unpredictability plays in a security program. For example, one of the things senior and high-profile government officials are taught is to vary their routes to & from work and other routine local travel activities. The TSA's pronouncement of "unpredictability" is simply a cover story for the stupid things that employees at all levels of the organization do every shift of every day. The TSA doesn't even come close.

Retaliatory secondaries, testing drinks while people are drinking them in gate areas, non-adherence to, or misinterpretation of, their own policies and procedures, roving patrols in parking lots and landside, SPOTNik interrogations, etc, can simply be explained away as "practicing the art of inconsistency."
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Old Apr 26, 2013 | 3:11 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by lamont2718
Unpredictability in security procedures is a key element of TSA's approach. They have also been open about this -- you'll find the following language at tsa.gov: "TSA will always incorporate random and unpredictable security measures throughout the airport."
Which is fine, except, and speaking as someone who was involved in real security in a former life, the way they do it has little to no effect what so ever on actual aircraft (let alone pax) safety. They display an amazing ability to target the least effective areas and methods for their games & theatre.

If you want to see a good, balanced approach to security try Japan, Germany, or (on most days) China.
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Old Apr 26, 2013 | 3:20 pm
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I was not trying to claim that TSA is perfect. If anything, it is clear that the organization needs improvement (see also the WSJ op-ed I referenced above). I was merely responding to the earlier posts in this thread, including the OP's, which seemed to assume that the proper approach to security is to have predictable and consistent guidelines.
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Old Apr 26, 2013 | 3:43 pm
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Originally Posted by lamont2718
I was not trying to claim that TSA is perfect. If anything, it is clear that the organization needs improvement (see also the WSJ op-ed I referenced above). I was merely responding to the earlier posts in this thread, including the OP's, which seemed to assume that the proper approach to security is to have predictable and consistent guidelines.
Well, I would say that the proper approach to security is not to claim that it things are being done in the name of unpredictability instead of because the employees have no clue what they're doing, which is generally the case.

Mike
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Old Apr 26, 2013 | 5:16 pm
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Originally Posted by mikeef
Well, I would say that the proper approach to security is not to claim that it things are being done in the name of unpredictability instead of because the employees have no clue what they're doing, which is generally the case.

Mike
Unpredictable people do unpredictable things. That is almost never good. (TSA)

Consistent people applying planned unpredictability can be valuable in a security setting. (Secret Service)
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Old Apr 26, 2013 | 5:17 pm
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Originally Posted by lamont2718
I was not trying to claim that TSA is perfect. If anything, it is clear that the organization needs improvement (see also the WSJ op-ed I referenced above). I was merely responding to the earlier posts in this thread, including the OP's, which seemed to assume that the proper approach to security is to have predictable and consistent guidelines.
There is a huge difference between engaging in dangerously predicable behavior, and having consistent standards which treat the public with dignity and respect.

Let's look at one example of TSA's supposed "unpredictability" model - whole body imaging.

WBI scanners are installed at most c/ps through out the US. Which c/ps have them and which don't is a known quantity - there's a list right here on FT. But they're not in operation 24/7; when approaching a c/p equipped with WBI, you don't always know whether you're going to be selected to go through it or not. Sometimes, you go through the WTMD, sometimes you go through the WBI. And sometimes, even after you go through one of the scanners, you get a full-body rubdown with genital contact (laughably called a "pat-down" by TSA). Which one of these screening methods you get is unpredictable, which has multiple negative consequences for passengers.

But the unpredictability is absolutely useless as a genuine security measure, because there are only three possibilities, and all you have to do is be prepared for any or all of the three - WTMD, WBI, "pat-down". Prepare for those three methods, and you're home free.

Frankly, all passenger screening, predictable or not, is nearly meaningless because most cargo is still not screened, nor are airport employees, vendors, and vendor supplies which enter the sterile area by means other than the c/p.

And that's just an example of intentional unpredictability. The unintentional unpredictability that we complain about constantly comes from items that are supposed to be consistent from c/p to c/p, such as which IDs are acceptable, and whether the liquid limit is 3oz or 3.4oz. These examples are not security measures, they're simply examples of crappy training, lax standards, and a complete lack of accountability in the organization from top to bottom.

So, that's why we're complaining.
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Old Apr 26, 2013 | 7:16 pm
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Originally Posted by lamont2718
I was not trying to claim that TSA is perfect. If anything, it is clear that the organization needs improvement (see also the WSJ op-ed I referenced above). I was merely responding to the earlier posts in this thread, including the OP's, which seemed to assume that the proper approach to security is to have predictable and consistent guidelines.
TSA isn't unpredictable in order to vary its routine to make it harder to penetrate. It's unpredictable because the clerks are too lazy and stupid to learn the information they've been trained to learn, and they fail in varying ways to follow the rules they've been trained to follo. You can't predict whether a clerk will recognize that Hawaii or New Mexico is a US state, or know that a NEXUS card is an accepted ID. That doesn't enhance security. The OPs question was about checking a boarding pass twice within a space of about 20 feet. First, no part of checking IDs and boarding passes has anything to do with security. Second, if the ID checking clerk doesn't do his job, the remedy is to get rid of him. It isn't a hard job. If you fired a document clerk, you could get 200 qualified replacements at the airport, and they could do that job after 15 minutes of training.

The TSA is unpredictable because they hire lazy, stupid clerks and don't fire them for incompetence.
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Old Apr 26, 2013 | 10:48 pm
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Originally Posted by Carl Johnson
TSA isn't unpredictable in order to vary its routine to make it harder to penetrate. It's unpredictable because the clerks are too lazy and stupid to learn the information they've been trained to learn, and they fail in varying ways to follow the rules they've been trained to follo. You can't predict whether a clerk will recognize that Hawaii or New Mexico is a US state, or know that a NEXUS card is an accepted ID. That doesn't enhance security. The OPs question was about checking a boarding pass twice within a space of about 20 feet. First, no part of checking IDs and boarding passes has anything to do with security. Second, if the ID checking clerk doesn't do his job, the remedy is to get rid of him. It isn't a hard job. If you fired a document clerk, you could get 200 qualified replacements at the airport, and they could do that job after 15 minutes of training.

The TSA is unpredictable because they hire lazy, stupid clerks and don't fire them for incompetence.
I was going to respond to the earlier post myself but you nailed it.

I personally have lost a significant amount of weight since my last driver's license photo. I am always impressed by the TSA checker that notices...and says something. THEY are doing their job and paying attention.
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Old Apr 27, 2013 | 10:37 pm
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Originally Posted by orr333
I flew PBI-ATL yesterday and they were yelling to everyone to hang on to their boarding passes while going through the scanners.
I don't fly extremely often, but since mid-February, I've gone through TSA checkpoints at BWI, ATL, TPA, RDU, and FLL, and at every airport, they asked me to keep my boarding pass out for the entire screening process.

Before February, I hadn't flown since last September, so I figured they had changed the rules at some point during that time, since TSA at every airport asked for the same.
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Old Apr 28, 2013 | 5:10 am
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Originally Posted by WebDesignGuy
I don't fly extremely often, but since mid-February, I've gone through TSA checkpoints at BWI, ATL, TPA, RDU, and FLL, and at every airport, they asked me to keep my boarding pass out for the entire screening process.

Before February, I hadn't flown since last September, so I figured they had changed the rules at some point during that time, since TSA at every airport asked for the same.
Since February, I have been through BNA (6 times), ONT, SMF, MSP and MDW (3 times) and at none of them have I been asked to keep my boarding pass out.

Go figure.
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Old Apr 28, 2013 | 5:53 am
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Old Apr 28, 2013 | 8:46 am
  #28  
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So this means you must carry your cell phone through the scanner?


Originally Posted by MariaP
April 14 at BWI, I was asked to keep my boarding passes out. On the return leg from MCO, I wasn't. Prior to that, I have not been asked to keep it out anywhere for a couple of years.

At the BWI checkpoint, there was a TSA agent announcing the policy with plenty of time for passengers to have it in hand before the scanners and he even added the information that they needed to confirm that everyone had the blue highlighter on it, showing that we had been checked ten feet prior.

Well, since i can't get past that podium without getting my bording pass checked, wouldn't we all have been screened. And, if there was a concern about people slipping by (impossible) couldn't that announcing agenct be reassigned from announcer to watcher to make sure we all got our boarding passes checked?

I have a system where I keep the side flap of my carry on open and just after the boarding pass is checked, I slip that and my license into the bag. I am willing to change but I don't want to then get snapped at at the next airport when I have my boarding pass in hand as I go through the machine.
Nobody takes a blue highlighter to my iPhone. Nobody.
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Old May 29, 2013 | 6:56 am
  #29  
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TSA LGA local rules

TSA representatives at LGA had four clerks in the D terminal SkyPriority lane checking boarding passes after the contracted security checked the same BP.

The TDC then asked destination, I reply, "hmm, I dunno, lemme see where I'm connecting today, oh, looks like DTW."

Looks like another self-induced TSA penalty, similar to name game exercises. Or just busy work for the four (4) clerks at the entrance to the elite line.
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Old May 29, 2013 | 2:34 pm
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Classic.
As if having to hang on to your boarding pass in the scanners
is going to derail Terrorists using God/Allah as their inspiration to wreak havoc.
Also, they shouldn't be "yelling" at passengers in the first place,
since we paid for the damn tickets.
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