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What is the Consensus on Defiance?

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Old Apr 17, 2013 | 1:36 am
  #31  
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My theory is that the TSA intentionally introduced backscatter and then abolished it in order to increase public acceptance of MMW. MMW is "safer" and "less intrusive" than BKSX, so by abolishing the latter, they can make it look like they have addressed the problems. If they had skipped BKSX and gone directly to MMW, then people would compare the MMW to the WTMD rather than to the BKSX, and there would be more opposition. By introducing the BKSX as the "baseline", they have succeeded in getting people to accept the MMW.

I personally opt out of both of them, and will continue to do so. Some people have given in and started to take the path of least resistance, which is their choice, but I will never do so.
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Old Apr 17, 2013 | 4:33 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by rbphilip
you are, in fact, being excessive. The TSA needs you to make it through their security theater as quickly as possible. Getting tweaked because the world is changing is a waste of psychic energy.
Originally Posted by chinatraderjmr
You forget an important point. If you told me we would have the TSA & these methods now, 20 years ago of course I would have laughed at the absurdity if it. But had you told me this was the future & shown me pictures of what 9/11 would look like I would have seen the necessity.
And this goes to the root of the problem. 9/11 was a tragedy, especially for the victims and families/friends of the victims (deceased and survivors) but it did not (need to) "change everything." Terrorism was nothing new. Sneak attacks were nothing new. It was one novel (brilliantly executed by the bad guys) day, and now we are allowing that one day to define our society (and bankrupt it) because we choose to put up with it. The Depression and WWII generations went through arguably much worse. Arguably the UK went through worse in the 70s-90s with repeated domestic attacks. Not a single one of the screening measures you call "necessity" would have stopped 9/11, nor will they stop an equally novel and well executed attack today that threads its way through the vulnerabilities that exist in any system. What will stop attacks are good intelligence and investigative police work, all of which can be done within the bounds of the Constitution and without harassing millions of innocent travelers.

10x as many people died on 9/11 die in car accidents in the US every year. About 100x as many people die from smoking every year. Looking at pictures of 9/11 now evokes emotions that may or may not have been invoked 20 years ago by the same pictures without the context and personal memories. My kid (born 10+ years after 9/11) will look at photos of 9/11 the same way I look at photos of Pearl Harbor--historically interesting, but they don't make me want to go intern thousands of innocent Japanese-Americans. Making decisions on emotion hardly ever results in good decisions.
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Old Apr 17, 2013 | 5:06 am
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by studentff
And this goes to the root of the problem. 9/11 was a tragedy, especially for the victims and families/friends of the victims (deceased and survivors) but it did not (need to) "change everything." Terrorism was nothing new. Sneak attacks were nothing new. It was one novel (brilliantly executed by the bad guys) day, and now we are allowing that one day to define our society (and bankrupt it) because we choose to put up with it. The Depression and WWII generations went through arguably much worse. Arguably the UK went through worse in the 70s-90s with repeated domestic attacks. Not a single one of the screening measures you call "necessity" would have stopped 9/11, nor will they stop an equally novel and well executed attack today that threads its way through the vulnerabilities that exist in any system. What will stop attacks are good intelligence and investigative police work, all of which can be done within the bounds of the Constitution and without harassing millions of innocent travelers.

10x as many people died on 9/11 die in car accidents in the US every year. About 100x as many people die from smoking every year. Looking at pictures of 9/11 now evokes emotions that may or may not have been invoked 20 years ago by the same pictures without the context and personal memories. My kid (born 10+ years after 9/11) will look at photos of 9/11 the same way I look at photos of Pearl Harbor--historically interesting, but they don't make me want to go intern thousands of innocent Japanese-Americans. Making decisions on emotion hardly ever results in good decisions.
I don't disagree with anything much that you've said. We've become a nation of cowards (or we always were). I've gotten into trouble with my friends (I did on Sept 15, 2001) by pointing out that more Americans had died of lifestyle choices since Sept 11th than were killed in NYC. We don't mind the normal, repetitive deaths. But we're afraid of the "OMG terrorism" deaths that are less a risk than dying of bee stings. What will stop further *successful* attacks is the fact that we now know that terrorists are not to be negotiated with. Someone trying to take over a plane today will be swarmed by passengers like ants attacking an invader to their nests. And, conveniently, we're now all allowed to carry knives with 2" blades so someone who tries to hijack a plane won't likely survive the attempt.

On the scale of things that disrupt my travel day, 15 seconds in a millimeter wave scanner isn't on the scale. With TSA Precheck that 15 seconds is only occasionally. I've never chosen or been selected for a pat-down in this country (but it's normal going between terminals at LHR) but can't imagining myself caring much. There are more useful windmills in this world at which to tilt.

Life is short. Don't let the little things get you down.
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Old Apr 17, 2013 | 5:11 am
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by studentff
........

The Depression and WWII generations went through arguably much worse.

...........
This comment caught my eye. I have recently come to believe that the integrity, toughness and self reliance learned by the children growing up in The Depression is much of the reason that those same children as young adults were able to do what they did with courage and resoluteness in WWII.
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Old Apr 24, 2013 | 10:36 am
  #35  
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If you want to opt-out for a legit medical reason, like a pregnancy or something of that nature. Sure go for it.

But after reading some of the stories on here, some of you come across as dicks for no apparent reason. I mean, is it really that bad to walk through the machine, .... even if someone is seeing you nude. Who cares, its a x-ray photo, its not like your posing for playboy or something. Opting out for the sake of just opting out, and you wonder why the TSA guy is annoyed. I have had very few bad encounters with the TSA. If you smile and be pleasant and not go in with a ....-you attitude most of you seem to carry, they're generally decent folks just trying to get through a shift. If you act like an ..., dont be shocked that they act like an ... back.
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Old Apr 24, 2013 | 10:42 am
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by TomBrady
If you want to opt-out for a legit medical reason, like a pregnancy or something of that nature. Sure go for it.

But after reading some of the stories on here, some of you come across as dicks for no apparent reason. I mean, is it really that bad to walk through the machine, .... even if someone is seeing you nude. Who cares, its a x-ray photo, its not like your posing for playboy or something. Opting out for the sake of just opting out, and you wonder why the TSA guy is annoyed. I have had very few bad encounters with the TSA. If you smile and be pleasant and not go in with a ....-you attitude most of you seem to carry, they're generally decent folks just trying to get through a shift. If you act like an ..., dont be shocked that they act like an ... back.
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Old Apr 24, 2013 | 11:11 am
  #37  
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Originally Posted by TomBrady

But after reading some of the stories on here, some of you come across as dicks for no apparent reason. I mean, is it really that bad to walk through the machine, .... even if someone is seeing you nude. Who cares, its a x-ray photo, its not like your posing for playboy or something. Opting out for the sake of just opting out, and you wonder why the TSA guy is annoyed. I have had very few bad encounters with the TSA. If you smile and be pleasant and not go in with a ....-you attitude most of you seem to carry, they're generally decent folks just trying to get through a shift. If you act like an ..., dont be shocked that they act like an ... back.
Too bad.

TSA should not be taking naked pictures of anyone. Nor should they be sexually assaulting anyone. No decent person would ever subject others to that kind of criminal action, nor advocate such action. That's the complete opposite of "decent". Refer to the thesaurus for what that means. Those who either commit such crimes or direct others to commit such crimes belong in prison.
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Old Apr 24, 2013 | 11:23 am
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by TomBrady
If you want to opt-out for a legit medical reason, like a pregnancy or something of that nature. Sure go for it.

But after reading some of the stories on here, some of you come across as dicks for no apparent reason. I mean, is it really that bad to walk through the machine, .... even if someone is seeing you nude. Who cares, its a x-ray photo, its not like your posing for playboy or something. Opting out for the sake of just opting out, and you wonder why the TSA guy is annoyed. I have had very few bad encounters with the TSA. If you smile and be pleasant and not go in with a ....-you attitude most of you seem to carry, they're generally decent folks just trying to get through a shift. If you act like an ..., dont be shocked that they act like an ... back.

Let me know when you find your dignity and self respect. I don't think taking a stand against these illegal intrusions would make me one a group of "...dicks." Quite an ironic choice of words, don't you think?
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Old Apr 24, 2013 | 11:28 am
  #39  
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Originally Posted by mulieri
Let me know when you find your dignity and self respect. I don't think taking a stand against these illegal intrusions would make me one a group of "...dicks." Quite an ironic choice of words, don't you think?
I have much dignity and self respect. I have enough respect and dignity for myself not to whine and complain about a minor annoyance.
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Old Apr 24, 2013 | 11:30 am
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Spiff
Too bad.

TSA should not be taking naked pictures of anyone. Nor should they be sexually assaulting anyone. No decent person would ever subject others to that kind of criminal action, nor advocate such action. That's the complete opposite of "decent". Refer to the thesaurus for what that means. Those who either commit such crimes or direct others to commit such crimes belong in prison.

I will agree to disagree with you. My experiences and opinions have led me to take a different approach than you. To each their own.
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Old Apr 24, 2013 | 11:31 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by TomBrady
I have much dignity and self respect. I have enough respect and dignity for myself not to whine and complain about a minor annoyance.
It's not for you or anyone else to determine what a "minor annoyance" is for an individual. If you want to cede your Liberty, strip naked, or anything else, go for it. Don't expect others to be ok with such disgusting, un-American harassment.

Originally Posted by TomBrady
I will agree to disagree with you. My experiences and opinions have led me to take a different approach than you. To each their own.
That's your affair. Telling everyone else that they should also leave their freedom at the checkpoint is going to get you the pointed responses you deserve.
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Old Apr 24, 2013 | 11:33 am
  #42  
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Just like its not ok for someone else to tell me I have no self respect or dignity?
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Old Apr 24, 2013 | 11:38 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by TomBrady
If you want to opt-out for a legit medical reason, like a pregnancy or something of that nature. Sure go for it.

But after reading some of the stories on here, some of you come across as dicks for no apparent reason. I mean, is it really that bad to walk through the machine, .... even if someone is seeing you nude. Who cares, its a x-ray photo, its not like your posing for playboy or something. Opting out for the sake of just opting out, and you wonder why the TSA guy is annoyed. I have had very few bad encounters with the TSA. If you smile and be pleasant and not go in with a ....-you attitude most of you seem to carry, they're generally decent folks just trying to get through a shift. If you act like an ..., dont be shocked that they act like an ... back.
I take it that you would have no objection if the same procedures were required to enter your local mall, grocery store, library, hospital or any other place, just for your safety?

I can sum up my opinion of your post in three letters, starting with an A.
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Old Apr 24, 2013 | 11:42 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by TomBrady
I will agree to disagree with you. My experiences and opinions have led me to take a different approach than you. To each their own.
I used to be more ambivalent about the security protocols, mistakingly believing that even as it was becoming more unpleasant, it was had not crossed some magical line.

All this changed after a resolution pat down I was forced to endure--all due to a flase positive ETD swab. This can happen to you regardless if you use the AIT or not. The RPD involved mulitple occurences of the TSO touching my ____ [I believe TomBrady used the word "dick" already so it must be safe].

After this incident, the RPD did provide a resolution, or sorts. In short, that TSA cannot be trusted to safeguard the Constituion, laws, or reaonable decency. The hide behind SSI, you one cannot be certain what SOP actual is. This is anathema to the government that is supposed to be "By the People, For the People."

We know how the terrorists are, they wear these silly blue uniforms and stand around in airports.
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Old Apr 24, 2013 | 11:43 am
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by TomBrady
Just like its not ok for someone else to tell me I have no self respect or dignity?
This comes from the guy that is calling people "dicks!" Get over yourself.
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