Passports now required for domestic travel??
Nov 21, 2012, 11:32 am
#31
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Many people intent on renewing find unexpected problems in the process, especially in the elderly population who cannot understand why they must now suddenly produce all sorts of extra documentation in order to prove their identity so that they can renew their primary identity form.
The law of unintended consequence strikes again!
Nov 21, 2012, 12:40 pm
#32
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Yes you do. This is causing quite a bit of difficulty as catch-22 situations are encountered.
Many people intent on renewing find unexpected problems in the process, especially in the elderly population who cannot understand why they must now suddenly produce all sorts of extra documentation in order to prove their identity so that they can renew their primary identity form.
The law of unintended consequence strikes again!
Many people intent on renewing find unexpected problems in the process, especially in the elderly population who cannot understand why they must now suddenly produce all sorts of extra documentation in order to prove their identity so that they can renew their primary identity form.
The law of unintended consequence strikes again!
And I don't actually know if my birth certificate is the form required for RealID.
What a crock.
Yes, I know someone will be along shortly to post that getting a replacement physical SS card takes little or no effort and getting a new birth certificate in the appropriate form also takes little to no effort or cost. Still pretty ridiculous that I might need more documentation to satisfy DHS's requirements for a RealID (requirements that have nothing to do with me as a driver) than they required for a trusted traveller card.
Nov 21, 2012, 12:55 pm
#33
Join Date: Apr 2003
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That's kind of crazy. Depending the requirements, someone who already has NEXUS/SENTRI/GE could conceivably be turned away. I have not had a physical social security card since my teens. Never had to show the physical card to get hired (I knew my number, of course), and it obviously isn't a requirement for NEXUS/GE/SENTRI.
And I don't actually know if my birth certificate is the form required for RealID.
What a crock.
And I don't actually know if my birth certificate is the form required for RealID.
What a crock.
I have an infant son. Even if I don't do any international travel with him, my current plan is to get him a passport card when he is 6, renew it when he's 11, and get him a "real" 10-year adult passport and card when he's 16. If the rules get more draconian, I'll get the first passport card sooner. But as long as things stay about the same as they are now, he'll be safe from unintended consequences of ID-laws requiring documents he may not have in the future once he has that first passport card.
Got to make sure we have our papers in order. Sounds more like living in a police state than in the USA.
Nov 21, 2012, 1:05 pm
#34
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 360
You do, of course, realize that by asking about the "velocity", you are asking to have a vector quantified, and not just a speed.
Anyway, there were two different versions of the Swallow (DeHavilland DH-108) built. The first, of which 2 were built, was a low speed model, with a design Vne (top speed) of 280 mph. No one knows what the top speed of the second high-speed version was. It disintegrated, killing the test pilot, Geoffrey DeHavilland, Jr., upon reaching .9 Mach. What that speed is in mph or kph, would depend on the ambient air temperature.
To answer your question with respect to "velocity", one would have to know the direction of travel. And if it was truly "unladen" the speed and velocity would be 0, since the British Goblin turbojet engine required a lot of fuel (roughly 4,000 gallons/hour)to run, and jet fuel is about 6.67 pounds per gallon (and almost $7.00/gallon at JFK).
Anyway, there were two different versions of the Swallow (DeHavilland DH-108) built. The first, of which 2 were built, was a low speed model, with a design Vne (top speed) of 280 mph. No one knows what the top speed of the second high-speed version was. It disintegrated, killing the test pilot, Geoffrey DeHavilland, Jr., upon reaching .9 Mach. What that speed is in mph or kph, would depend on the ambient air temperature.
To answer your question with respect to "velocity", one would have to know the direction of travel. And if it was truly "unladen" the speed and velocity would be 0, since the British Goblin turbojet engine required a lot of fuel (roughly 4,000 gallons/hour)to run, and jet fuel is about 6.67 pounds per gallon (and almost $7.00/gallon at JFK).
Nov 21, 2012, 3:06 pm
#35
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Nov 21, 2012, 3:12 pm
#36
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Nov 21, 2012, 3:19 pm
#37
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You do, of course, realize that by asking about the "velocity", you are asking to have a vector quantified, and not just a speed.
Anyway, there were two different versions of the Swallow (DeHavilland DH-108) built. The first, of which 2 were built, was a low speed model, with a design Vne (top speed) of 280 mph. No one knows what the top speed of the second high-speed version was. It disintegrated, killing the test pilot, Geoffrey DeHavilland, Jr., upon reaching .9 Mach. What that speed is in mph or kph, would depend on the ambient air temperature.
To answer your question with respect to "velocity", one would have to know the direction of travel. And if it was truly "unladen" the speed and velocity would be 0, since the British Goblin turbojet engine required a lot of fuel (roughly 4,000 gallons/hour)to run, and jet fuel is about 6.67 pounds per gallon (and almost $7.00/gallon at JFK).
Anyway, there were two different versions of the Swallow (DeHavilland DH-108) built. The first, of which 2 were built, was a low speed model, with a design Vne (top speed) of 280 mph. No one knows what the top speed of the second high-speed version was. It disintegrated, killing the test pilot, Geoffrey DeHavilland, Jr., upon reaching .9 Mach. What that speed is in mph or kph, would depend on the ambient air temperature.
To answer your question with respect to "velocity", one would have to know the direction of travel. And if it was truly "unladen" the speed and velocity would be 0, since the British Goblin turbojet engine required a lot of fuel (roughly 4,000 gallons/hour)to run, and jet fuel is about 6.67 pounds per gallon (and almost $7.00/gallon at JFK).
Nov 21, 2012, 3:34 pm
#38
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 580
I have heard that it is likely that members of Congress will work to have this deadline extended. I remember when this was supposed to happen in the past, and members of Congress had the enforcement of REAL ID extended to prevent issues from coming. It is likely that this is an easy thing for members of Congress to do to show that they made things easier for voters of their state.
Nov 21, 2012, 4:19 pm
#40
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Posts: 490
That's kind of crazy. Depending the requirements, someone who already has NEXUS/SENTRI/GE could conceivably be turned away. I have not had a physical social security card since my teens. Never had to show the physical card to get hired (I knew my number, of course), and it obviously isn't a requirement for NEXUS/GE/SENTRI.
And I don't actually know if my birth certificate is the form required for RealID.
What a crock.
Yes, I know someone will be along shortly to post that getting a replacement physical SS card takes little or no effort and getting a new birth certificate in the appropriate form also takes little to no effort or cost. Still pretty ridiculous that I might need more documentation to satisfy DHS's requirements for a RealID (requirements that have nothing to do with me as a driver) than they required for a trusted traveller card.
And I don't actually know if my birth certificate is the form required for RealID.
What a crock.
Yes, I know someone will be along shortly to post that getting a replacement physical SS card takes little or no effort and getting a new birth certificate in the appropriate form also takes little to no effort or cost. Still pretty ridiculous that I might need more documentation to satisfy DHS's requirements for a RealID (requirements that have nothing to do with me as a driver) than they required for a trusted traveller card.
Documentation now required under The REAL ID Act as proof of identity include a state-issued (not hospital) birth certificate, valid passport, naturalization document, or consular proof of birth abroad. All documents must be original or certified from the source. Non-U.S. residents must provide proof of status within the country.
For proof of a Social Security number, an original Social Security card, W-2 or 1099 form, or recent paycheck can be provided.
For proof of home address, two documents indicating the address, including a mortgage deed, utility bill, voter registration card, insurance card, W-2 or 1099 form, or bank statement can be provided.
For proof of legal name change, an original or certified copy of a marriage certificate (not church issued) or court order showing name change can be provided.
Without exception, all qualifying documents must be presented to renew or obtain a driver license or state identification card. Under limited circumstances, a temporary permit can be issued while gathering required documents.
Supporters of The REAL ID Act claim that the new documentation requirements add security to driver license and state identification holders as they will not be able to board an aircraft or enter federal buildings without a Real ID-compliant license or identification card starting in 2014.
Critics of The REAL ID Act claim the new law will weaken security of personal information by placing it in a national data base subject to access nationwide.
While The REAL ID Act of 2005 is currently the law in Florida and a dozen other states, opposition is building in Congress to repeal it. Although in the minority as approximately 37 states have prohibited implementation of the new law, compliance is now a must here in the Sunshine state.
For proof of a Social Security number, an original Social Security card, W-2 or 1099 form, or recent paycheck can be provided.
For proof of home address, two documents indicating the address, including a mortgage deed, utility bill, voter registration card, insurance card, W-2 or 1099 form, or bank statement can be provided.
For proof of legal name change, an original or certified copy of a marriage certificate (not church issued) or court order showing name change can be provided.
Without exception, all qualifying documents must be presented to renew or obtain a driver license or state identification card. Under limited circumstances, a temporary permit can be issued while gathering required documents.
Supporters of The REAL ID Act claim that the new documentation requirements add security to driver license and state identification holders as they will not be able to board an aircraft or enter federal buildings without a Real ID-compliant license or identification card starting in 2014.
Critics of The REAL ID Act claim the new law will weaken security of personal information by placing it in a national data base subject to access nationwide.
While The REAL ID Act of 2005 is currently the law in Florida and a dozen other states, opposition is building in Congress to repeal it. Although in the minority as approximately 37 states have prohibited implementation of the new law, compliance is now a must here in the Sunshine state.
Last edited by loops; Nov 21, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Nov 21, 2012, 4:39 pm
#41
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As someone who has already been massively annoyed by the RealID process when I was unfortunate enough to be an early adapter, I feel like if I had to jump through assorted hoops, everyone else should have to share that annoyance of trying to get the documentation together. And I had it easy compared to a co-worker who was trying to get her driver's license issued in her new name after a) getting married and b) moving into her husband's home where her name was on none of the house paperwork.
Nov 21, 2012, 5:24 pm
#42
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Nov 21, 2012, 6:33 pm
#43
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I submit that the requirement to show ID at the checkpoint (and sometimes the desk when checking in) plus the no-fly list is the functional equivalent of a Soviet-style internal passport.
Nov 21, 2012, 7:03 pm
#44
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As someone who has already been massively annoyed by the RealID process when I was unfortunate enough to be an early adapter, I feel like if I had to jump through assorted hoops, everyone else should have to share that annoyance of trying to get the documentation together. And I had it easy compared to a co-worker who was trying to get her driver's license issued in her new name after a) getting married and b) moving into her husband's home where her name was on none of the house paperwork.
imagine if any of this presented a problem at the checkpoint?
<your documents are lacking, you cannot fly (or enter this court of law) today>
This must be repealed.
Last edited by loops; Nov 21, 2012 at 7:24 pm
Nov 21, 2012, 10:26 pm
#45
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,580
My guess is that DHS is not going to back down this time. If they do, states will see that they can get unlimited extensions and not bother. Rather, I think that TSA will start giving extra scrutiny to people with non-compliant ID. It won't be as bad as showing up without ID, but it will be just enough to prod the states into compliance.
That's my guess; let's see what happens.
That's my guess; let's see what happens.