Requirement for speaking your name?
Jul 31, 2011, 5:53 pm
#46
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA; Philadelphia, PA
Programs: OZ Diamond
Posts: 6,140
I think that's entirely correct, whether it's out of a desperate desire to justify their budgets and bloated headcount, or a "show of force" ("Stop! Or we'll say 'stop' again!"), or what, but TSA insists on all sorts of things that don't make rational sense.
A couple weeks ago, the gate agents at my LGA-MSY flight announced that TSA would be "checking IDs for random passengers." Turns out that meant that a TSO stood blocking the boarding lanes until she could check everybody's ID. Every single person had to have their ID checked twice -- no magic flashlight was in evidence -- which slowed down boarding considerably. I asked her "so why don't you guys trust your TDCs?" She said it was for "extra security on random flights", and while it's not polite and I'm not proud of this, I couldn't keep from laughing to her face about that.
Extra security! Who wouldn't want extra security? But if they're providing extra security, why don't they do it on ALL flights? I guess they're gonna catch those terrorists who pass the checkpoint with a fake ID and then manage to lose it between the checkpoint and the gate.
I guess it worked, though, as my plane did not explode and I made it to MSY intact.
A couple weeks ago, the gate agents at my LGA-MSY flight announced that TSA would be "checking IDs for random passengers." Turns out that meant that a TSO stood blocking the boarding lanes until she could check everybody's ID. Every single person had to have their ID checked twice -- no magic flashlight was in evidence -- which slowed down boarding considerably. I asked her "so why don't you guys trust your TDCs?" She said it was for "extra security on random flights", and while it's not polite and I'm not proud of this, I couldn't keep from laughing to her face about that.
Extra security! Who wouldn't want extra security? But if they're providing extra security, why don't they do it on ALL flights? I guess they're gonna catch those terrorists who pass the checkpoint with a fake ID and then manage to lose it between the checkpoint and the gate.
I guess it worked, though, as my plane did not explode and I made it to MSY intact.
LAX
Jul 31, 2011, 6:59 pm
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,129
I still fail to understand to point of checking IDs in the first place, let alone checking it again at the gate. If someone wants to fly under a false name for whatever purpose (not necessarily terror-related), it won't be too difficult to obtain one (ie: underage college students). Thus, so what if the ID matches the name on the ticket if the name on the ticket doesn't match the person traveling with the ticket??
LAX
LAX
Aug 3, 2011, 5:56 pm
#48
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 330
A semi official TSA answer to my queston on the "speak your name" issue at IAH.
Received this polite reply from Mr. Gene Brault Customer Support/Quality Improvement Manager, ICMS Coordinator, TSA, George Bush Intercontinental Airport-Houston (IAH)
.
Use at your own discretion, and I have also contacted my Congressman, former judge Ted Poe (TX D-2) on this matter asking him to find an answer and also my two Senators, Cornyn and Hutcheson.
I haven't felt this good since I got my differed draft status as a Conscientious Objector at the end of Vietnam when I was 18! ^^^
***************************
Dear Mr. Summers,
Your questions to me were:
1. Am I required by law to speak my name and if so please identify the law or is this voluntary?
Answer: You are not required to speak your name. As you pointed out, there is a fraction of the population that might not be physically capable of so doing. The supervisor you encountered who as you indicated “was polite but asked me to explain why I would not comply” was responding to an Officer call and attempting to determine whether there was some other reason you might have been reluctant. Use of fraudulent and stolen, altered documents has been identified, and as TSA moves more toward changes in the screening process, the ability to identify those who have ill or criminal intent will continue to be a concern to be addressed.
2. You mention your appreciation for my patience and assisting the TSA in this test program. Am I free to decline to assist the TSA in this matter?
Answer: You are certainly free to inform the Officer that you prefer not to speak your name out loud in public. If the Officer feels your response is suspicious, they will no doubt request a supervisor to respond and investigate further.
3 If I show valid a ID and boarding pass and politely refuse to speak my name out loud, can I legally be kept from advancing through the checkpoint?
Answer: I think your experience speaks for itself. You were not prevented from advancing through the checkpoint. However, that does not mean that you won’t be asked further questions.
4. Do my Constitutional rights as a US citizen stop at the TSA screening area as I was once told?
Answer: Your Constitutional rights do not stop at the TSA screening area, nor does the Mission of TSA to protect the Nation’s Transportation Security System to ensure the freedom of movement for people and commerce as mandated by the Aviation Transportation Security Act signed into law in November 2001. The TSA achieves that freedom of movement through its people, processes, and technology. In order to achieve that Mission with a dynamic and changing adversary while at the same time recognizing that most of the traveling public are not the adversary, the TSA tests, pilots and initiates a number of new processes and technologies to ensure your traveling freedom.
You also indicated that the supervisor you encountered stated to you, "We are free to make up any rules we want and we don't have to post them anywhere!" (Your emphasis added). While I do not know the context of the conversation you had with the supervisor in question (you indicated when she came back you engaged in further conversation on the matter), nor do I know the tone and demeanor of either in this exchange, I can tell you that the statement you allege she made would be inappropriate and misleading as stated. I will pass that along to Operations Management to investigate for corrective action. However, because of privacy laws, I would not able to share with you the specifics of any corrective actions that might be taken.
I hope this answers your questions. If I can offer further information or clarification, please let me know.
Respectfully,
Gene Brault
.
Use at your own discretion, and I have also contacted my Congressman, former judge Ted Poe (TX D-2) on this matter asking him to find an answer and also my two Senators, Cornyn and Hutcheson.
I haven't felt this good since I got my differed draft status as a Conscientious Objector at the end of Vietnam when I was 18! ^^^
***************************
Dear Mr. Summers,
Your questions to me were:
1. Am I required by law to speak my name and if so please identify the law or is this voluntary?
Answer: You are not required to speak your name. As you pointed out, there is a fraction of the population that might not be physically capable of so doing. The supervisor you encountered who as you indicated “was polite but asked me to explain why I would not comply” was responding to an Officer call and attempting to determine whether there was some other reason you might have been reluctant. Use of fraudulent and stolen, altered documents has been identified, and as TSA moves more toward changes in the screening process, the ability to identify those who have ill or criminal intent will continue to be a concern to be addressed.
2. You mention your appreciation for my patience and assisting the TSA in this test program. Am I free to decline to assist the TSA in this matter?
Answer: You are certainly free to inform the Officer that you prefer not to speak your name out loud in public. If the Officer feels your response is suspicious, they will no doubt request a supervisor to respond and investigate further.
3 If I show valid a ID and boarding pass and politely refuse to speak my name out loud, can I legally be kept from advancing through the checkpoint?
Answer: I think your experience speaks for itself. You were not prevented from advancing through the checkpoint. However, that does not mean that you won’t be asked further questions.
4. Do my Constitutional rights as a US citizen stop at the TSA screening area as I was once told?
Answer: Your Constitutional rights do not stop at the TSA screening area, nor does the Mission of TSA to protect the Nation’s Transportation Security System to ensure the freedom of movement for people and commerce as mandated by the Aviation Transportation Security Act signed into law in November 2001. The TSA achieves that freedom of movement through its people, processes, and technology. In order to achieve that Mission with a dynamic and changing adversary while at the same time recognizing that most of the traveling public are not the adversary, the TSA tests, pilots and initiates a number of new processes and technologies to ensure your traveling freedom.
You also indicated that the supervisor you encountered stated to you, "We are free to make up any rules we want and we don't have to post them anywhere!" (Your emphasis added). While I do not know the context of the conversation you had with the supervisor in question (you indicated when she came back you engaged in further conversation on the matter), nor do I know the tone and demeanor of either in this exchange, I can tell you that the statement you allege she made would be inappropriate and misleading as stated. I will pass that along to Operations Management to investigate for corrective action. However, because of privacy laws, I would not able to share with you the specifics of any corrective actions that might be taken.
I hope this answers your questions. If I can offer further information or clarification, please let me know.
Respectfully,
Gene Brault
Aug 3, 2011, 6:21 pm
#49
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 171
Wow! I can see why you're impressed; this TSA employee didn't use weasel words or slippery language to avoid answering your questions. This is a letter very different in tone from what we've come to expect from this unaccountable agency. I'm glad you got a good response. I think I'll say, "For my own safety, I will not state my name out loud where strangers might hear it," and according to the sense I get from this letter, TDC might just be okay with that.
Aug 3, 2011, 6:28 pm
#50
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 330
Rereading what I just posted, I thought I would reply with a suggested protocol.
1. Approach the TDC and give them your "official" ID and BP. Politely refuse to speak your name out loud and if the say they have to ask, acknowledge this and state that you have "a Constitutional right to remain silent under the 5th Amendment and the Supreme Court Ruling- Miranda v. Arizona
2 If the TDC is confused and wants to call a supervisor, agree and ask for an "Officer Call." Ask for a 3 stripper... can't remember their official title....
3. Politely repeat to the TSA supervisor you issue with request and remind them of your Constitutional protection.
4. Remind the agent if necessary that your US Constitutional protections do not expire as you enter the TSA checkpoint. Feel free to show them an annotated copy of this email and note the name and phone number and email address of Mr. Brault or ask for higher supervision. Stand by your rights, get to the airport early, etc so you are not at risk of missing your flight. Furthermore do not do as I did and let the TSO supervisor take your ID with out your permission or personal accompaniment.
HANG IN THERE!
1. Approach the TDC and give them your "official" ID and BP. Politely refuse to speak your name out loud and if the say they have to ask, acknowledge this and state that you have "a Constitutional right to remain silent under the 5th Amendment and the Supreme Court Ruling- Miranda v. Arizona
2 If the TDC is confused and wants to call a supervisor, agree and ask for an "Officer Call." Ask for a 3 stripper... can't remember their official title....
3. Politely repeat to the TSA supervisor you issue with request and remind them of your Constitutional protection.
4. Remind the agent if necessary that your US Constitutional protections do not expire as you enter the TSA checkpoint. Feel free to show them an annotated copy of this email and note the name and phone number and email address of Mr. Brault or ask for higher supervision. Stand by your rights, get to the airport early, etc so you are not at risk of missing your flight. Furthermore do not do as I did and let the TSO supervisor take your ID with out your permission or personal accompaniment.
HANG IN THERE!
Aug 3, 2011, 6:41 pm
#52
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: DL, WN, US, Avis, AA
Posts: 662
Wow! I can see why you're impressed; this TSA employee didn't use weasel words or slippery language to avoid answering your questions. This is a letter very different in tone from what we've come to expect from this unaccountable agency. I'm glad you got a good response. I think I'll say, "For my own safety, I will not state my name out loud where strangers might hear it," and according to the sense I get from this letter, TDC might just be okay with that.
Aug 3, 2011, 6:46 pm
#53
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SJC
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 1,628
I'm happy to see this, but in reality, it means very little. Showing this at any other airport would surely result in "we don't do it that way here."
This letter needs Pistole's signature on it.
Aug 3, 2011, 6:49 pm
#54
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
2. That is out of date and no longer applies.
Aug 3, 2011, 6:54 pm
#55
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 330
So where do you stop? Will you just comply? Not me and if I miss a flight so be it. I have classmates who died in Vietnam... or who's parents were black listed as Communists. Maybe a stretch but their and others opinions matter.,
Aug 3, 2011, 6:56 pm
#56
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 330
NO! Accountability starts when you raise a fuss and ask questions and demand a supervisor, if need be the man listed in my TSA reply!
Aug 3, 2011, 7:25 pm
#57
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
As for the say my name circus, I will "sign" my name and see where it goes. If I do this with my NEXUS it should be twice the fun.
At the last NEXUS confrontation I had, they were asking everyone to say their name. I had to escalate to the FSM to get NEXUS approval. The TDC and three up line had denied it based on the fact that they had not seen one before. In the end, the manager approved it, squiggled the BP, wished me a nice trip and completely forgot to ask me to say my name. Now that would have been interesting.
Aug 3, 2011, 10:19 pm
#59
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,513
Received this polite reply from Mr. Gene Brault Customer Support/Quality Improvement Manager, ICMS Coordinator, TSA, George Bush Intercontinental Airport-Houston (IAH)
.
Use at your own discretion, and I have also contacted my Congressman, former judge Ted Poe (TX D-2) on this matter asking him to find an answer and also my two Senators, Cornyn and Hutcheson.
I haven't felt this good since I got my differed draft status as a Conscientious Objector at the end of Vietnam when I was 18! ^^^
.
Use at your own discretion, and I have also contacted my Congressman, former judge Ted Poe (TX D-2) on this matter asking him to find an answer and also my two Senators, Cornyn and Hutcheson.
I haven't felt this good since I got my differed draft status as a Conscientious Objector at the end of Vietnam when I was 18! ^^^
Aug 3, 2011, 10:41 pm
#60
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,145
3 If I show valid a ID and boarding pass and politely refuse to speak my name out loud, can I legally be kept from advancing through the checkpoint?
Answer: I think your experience speaks for itself. You were not prevented from advancing through the checkpoint. However, that does not mean that you won’t be asked further questions.
Answer: I think your experience speaks for itself. You were not prevented from advancing through the checkpoint. However, that does not mean that you won’t be asked further questions.