TSA BDOs finally get something right
Jul 31, 2012 | 8:25 pm
#17
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,431
I, too, am pleased that she was rescued.
However, there is a little gremlin in the back of my mind that is itching to say something.
We quite often on this board criticize the TSA for going beyond their charge of finding WEI. Some of us complain when they find bit of marijuana and call an LEO. Or we say that it is none of their business to report a large amount of cash even though this may be a sign of some criminal activity.
Does the fact that we would have done the same thing make it different? Is it because they did it, not as government actors, but as concerned citizens make it different?
This was clearly outside the bounds of the things for which they are looking. Do we really want them to be all proud of this accomplishment so that they will report every suspicious activity, like taking pictures in the airport, having consecutive checks in ones wallet, and having photographs they deem pornographic that they find by accident?
I have told my gremlin to shut up now.
However, there is a little gremlin in the back of my mind that is itching to say something.
We quite often on this board criticize the TSA for going beyond their charge of finding WEI. Some of us complain when they find bit of marijuana and call an LEO. Or we say that it is none of their business to report a large amount of cash even though this may be a sign of some criminal activity.
Does the fact that we would have done the same thing make it different? Is it because they did it, not as government actors, but as concerned citizens make it different?
This was clearly outside the bounds of the things for which they are looking. Do we really want them to be all proud of this accomplishment so that they will report every suspicious activity, like taking pictures in the airport, having consecutive checks in ones wallet, and having photographs they deem pornographic that they find by accident?
I have told my gremlin to shut up now.
1) Please don't ever include "taking photographs" in a list of theoretical suspicious behaviors. Taking photographs, in and of itself, is not a suspicious activity in any way and should never be portrayed as such.
2) I understand your gremlin, but this term may assuage it - "The Plain View Doctrine". This is a legal doctrine that says that even a police officer, who needs a warrant or probable cause to search, may act upon anything illegal or suspicious that is in plain view. Example: when a cop pulls you over for a speed violation, he may not search your car without permission, but if he sees open alcohol, drugs or drug paraphernalia, or evidence of other illegal activity in plain view with in the car, then he may search it, because the items in plain view establish probable cause.
I've probably butchered the explanation, so hopefully one of our legal eagles will come along and correct my mistakes.
But, to my way of thinking, the Plain View Doctrine is essentially what guides TSOs during their administrative search; anything in plain view - which includes anything they see during the normal course of a limited administrative search - can be used as evidence, and should trigger their notification of LEOs for a criminal search.
Thus, a woman who had recently received a beating and had plainly evident injuries, coupled with nervous behavior, all happens in plain view and is sufficient, in my opinion, to warrant the TSOs calling in LEOs. Just like if they witness a pickpocket stealing someone's wallet.
It is when they see something that is NOT suspicious (like someone taking pics in an airport - DUH, people take pics when they're on vacation! or traveling with a bunch of money - DUH, you have to PAY for stuff when you travel!), yet they interpret it as suspicious and over-react, that's when they're overstepping the bounds of their limited authority.
Jul 31, 2012 | 9:20 pm
#18
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
Two things, Ink:
1) Please don't ever include "taking photographs" in a list of theoretical suspicious behaviors. Taking photographs, in and of itself, is not a suspicious activity in any way and should never be portrayed as such.
2) I understand your gremlin, but this term may assuage it - "The Plain View Doctrine". This is a legal doctrine that says that even a police officer, who needs a warrant or probable cause to search, may act upon anything illegal or suspicious that is in plain view. Example: when a cop pulls you over for a speed violation, he may not search your car without permission, but if he sees open alcohol, drugs or drug paraphernalia, or evidence of other illegal activity in plain view with in the car, then he may search it, because the items in plain view establish probable cause.
I've probably butchered the explanation, so hopefully one of our legal eagles will come along and correct my mistakes.
But, to my way of thinking, the Plain View Doctrine is essentially what guides TSOs during their administrative search; anything in plain view - which includes anything they see during the normal course of a limited administrative search - can be used as evidence, and should trigger their notification of LEOs for a criminal search.
Thus, a woman who had recently received a beating and had plainly evident injuries, coupled with nervous behavior, all happens in plain view and is sufficient, in my opinion, to warrant the TSOs calling in LEOs. Just like if they witness a pickpocket stealing someone's wallet.
It is when they see something that is NOT suspicious (like someone taking pics in an airport - DUH, people take pics when they're on vacation! or traveling with a bunch of money - DUH, you have to PAY for stuff when you travel!), yet they interpret it as suspicious and over-react, that's when they're overstepping the bounds of their limited authority.
1) Please don't ever include "taking photographs" in a list of theoretical suspicious behaviors. Taking photographs, in and of itself, is not a suspicious activity in any way and should never be portrayed as such.
2) I understand your gremlin, but this term may assuage it - "The Plain View Doctrine". This is a legal doctrine that says that even a police officer, who needs a warrant or probable cause to search, may act upon anything illegal or suspicious that is in plain view. Example: when a cop pulls you over for a speed violation, he may not search your car without permission, but if he sees open alcohol, drugs or drug paraphernalia, or evidence of other illegal activity in plain view with in the car, then he may search it, because the items in plain view establish probable cause.
I've probably butchered the explanation, so hopefully one of our legal eagles will come along and correct my mistakes.
But, to my way of thinking, the Plain View Doctrine is essentially what guides TSOs during their administrative search; anything in plain view - which includes anything they see during the normal course of a limited administrative search - can be used as evidence, and should trigger their notification of LEOs for a criminal search.
Thus, a woman who had recently received a beating and had plainly evident injuries, coupled with nervous behavior, all happens in plain view and is sufficient, in my opinion, to warrant the TSOs calling in LEOs. Just like if they witness a pickpocket stealing someone's wallet.
It is when they see something that is NOT suspicious (like someone taking pics in an airport - DUH, people take pics when they're on vacation! or traveling with a bunch of money - DUH, you have to PAY for stuff when you travel!), yet they interpret it as suspicious and over-react, that's when they're overstepping the bounds of their limited authority.
Aug 1, 2012 | 1:09 pm
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,684
DON'T CREDIT the BDOs for this one!
Read the article:
http://overheadbin.nbcnews.com/_news...i-airport?lite
It says:
The BDOs didn't detect this. The alleged victim TOLD the TSA that something was amiss, according to the TSA.
Read the article:
http://overheadbin.nbcnews.com/_news...i-airport?lite
It says:
The BDOs didn't detect this. The alleged victim TOLD the TSA that something was amiss, according to the TSA.
"The way that she was acting, we actually thought it was a case of an abduction because she looked very young, Danielle said.
Her partner approached her and asked her to come with them, Danielle added.
She told us basically to help her and to take her away from the people that she was traveling with, Danielle said.
Her partner approached her and asked her to come with them, Danielle added.
She told us basically to help her and to take her away from the people that she was traveling with, Danielle said.
Mike
Aug 2, 2012 | 8:45 am
#20
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: AA Gold, Marriott Plat
Posts: 456
Agree.. I witnessed a crime against a child, intervened and nearly got killed. Now, I just stay out of it and be a witness.
Aug 2, 2012 | 9:54 am
#21
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 49,114
I personally have had to travel (once) looking like I'd been badly beaten up (bad bad fall backpacking). I was in a lot of pain, people stared...but I still wouldn't want TSA involved in such a situation.
Why?
If I fly when I'm a bruised, swollen scabbed mess, I represent no threat to the flying public. If I fly while stressed, aching and uncomfortable because people are staring at me, I still represent no threat to the flying public.
I do not want some TSO to use this incident to play Jr. BDO-wannabe and cause me further grief by interrogating me, summoning LEOs, delaying me, etc. because he/she wants to get his/her 15 minutes of fame.
This woman apparently asked for assistance and got it. If the pax initiates a request, fine. Otherwise, it is none of TSA's business. They continually fail to fulfil the mission they are actually tasked to do; they have no business playing at being LEOs.
Aug 2, 2012 | 1:21 pm
#22
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
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Posts: 102,077
These were apparently her "friends" who did that to her. And the involved women were the principal instigators of the reported crimes. The men mainly accomplices trying to make their sex partners happy by turning on the woman who was the "rule" breaker in the group.
Aug 2, 2012 | 1:28 pm
#23
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Rio Rancho, NM - USA
Programs: DL, UA, WN, Amtrak, Hyatt, Accor
Posts: 1,795
Aug 3, 2012 | 8:43 am
#25
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,431
Aug 4, 2012 | 6:12 am
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,343
I suspect that Blogger Bob will be touting the success of the BDO program in the very near future.
http://overheadbin.nbcnews.com/_news...i-airport?lite
I think anyone without the 40 hours or 2 weeks of BDO training could have made the same determination.
http://overheadbin.nbcnews.com/_news...i-airport?lite
I think anyone without the 40 hours or 2 weeks of BDO training could have made the same determination.