GUWonder

Even looking at a passport, they don't necessarily know a person's lawful presence status.

RichardKenner

There were reports of that in the past, though even they stated that the "bonuses" weren't anything formal. But the TSA has agreed with the ACLU that such things are unconstitutional, so if it's happening now, it's likely even much less formal.

And as to I-94's, what does the TSA have to do with that? To say nothing of the fact that most I-94's have gone away.

Affection

FlyingHoustonian: After reading the statutes provided by CBP in your post, my conclusion remains that while searches upon entry are compulsary, searches while leaving (outside reasonable suspicion) are not.

--Jon

Carl Johnson

If you are not a US citizen or a permanent resident, you should have an I-94, which will include the expiration of your authorized stay. It won't indicate whether or not you violated conditions of the stay (like getting a job when you weren't supposed to, or dropping out of school if you entered on a student visa), but they will be able to tell if you overstayed. And the I-94 should be stapled in the passport.

GUWonder

Not necessarily. Things of this sort are far more nuanced than your above post communicates. There are so many "exceptions" to what you posted above that I am not going to even start listing them with the applicable conditional elements.

DanishFlyer

The TSA has no business with citizenship.They don't deal with collecting I-94s. And everyone who travels on visa-waiver no longer gets a physical I-94 anyway.

When we did have physical I-94s they were collected by the airlines (and you'd better try to make them take it yourself, 'cause they didn't always remember that.)

DanishFlyer

FlyingHoustonian

Well, when you miss your flight, which they regularly do, you can come back and report it to us.

It seems like you don't fly enough to run into them so I wouldn't trouble yourself about it.

The fact remains, it is cumpulsory. They can stop you from getting on the plane, and it is in the US code linked. Carpe google.

Whether any of us like that is not the point.

GUWonder

Absent a court involvement, can they stop a US citizen from deciding to no longer attempt to exit the country? Thus no grounds for applying exit control to such person? Mistaken or not, I was under the impression that legally they have the authority to enforce exit controls too.

A person showing up at a US port of entry on US soil is different than a person showing up to exit the US but changing their mind.

Carl Johnson

I wasn't responding to that point, I was responding to the argument that the CPB has no right to look at anything for people leaving the country. I agree with you and others that the TSA has no right to insist on looking at a passport. I would ask, though, that everyone with a passport present it to the TDC unless they have an objection to doing so, so that we can get back a report of a TDC not knowing what a passport is.

DanishFlyer

Sorry, I misunderstood.

However, it is still the case that CBP does not normally inspect passports on air departures from the US, maybe sometimes they do, I have never experienced this.

And even then inspecting the passport (without a scanner linked to "the system") would not tell them all that much. People's circumstances change during their stay without necessarily meaning a change in the passport or becoming illegal or overstay.

DanishFlyer

luv2fly1st

I don't see what the problem is when asked to show your passport along with the boarding card.
The U.S. and Canada are the only countries that I know of that do not have an exit check using a customs or immigration agent. Think of exiting Japan, UK, Schengen Zone to non-Shengen zone, South Africa, India, and even Singapore to an international destination. You have to show you passport and boarding card to someone who will then stamp your passport with an exit stamp.
So if a TDC asks you for your passport when you are travelling internationally, why make it a problem? They are just making sure that you have the docuements to proceed to the next level in the Security Theater game.
I am no fan of the TSA, but I don't have a problem with showing my boarding card and passport as id when asked to do so by the TDC.

Affection

Not to be an @ss, but do you know who I am?

--Jon

Carl Johnson

You can do as you like, and your views are reasonable as they apply to yourself. Others don't want the TSA pawing through their passports. Others just want the TSA to follow TSA rules, which are that presenting an ID on the approved list satisfies the ID requirement. Their views are reasonable too.

If the TSA wants to make sure you have your passport so you will be ready for CBP, or for entry at your destination, they can just ask you, do you have your passport? In addition, the airline always wants to see it.

FlyingHoustonian

Not to be an @$$ either but yeah I've read many of your posts here, and your blog (I fly more not that that is a good thing ), and I commend your "lawsuit"good luck (re: your link), though when I was a registered lobbyist I actually affected change in the TSA and I have posted more than once about how people on this site really can get change.
First it takes money and organisation. Not to digress to much but lawsuits will do little, as can be seen by the many posted here. It will take direct congressional action to change TSA (and DHS). I can tell you from the lobbying world you need money, volunteers, time and organisation/leadership.
Complaining about the feckless TSA policies and leadership on this board is nice for all of us to vent but if you a do a search the same crap has been happening for years. Venting here doesn't fix it. Congress made it and congress must fix it.

As for the outbound checks-I fly international flights, on average, once a week (some corporate, some government, most commercial). My hit rate for exit checks is about 3-5% YMMV

I don't like anything about a "papersplease" society and I've lived in some much worse than here. However, CBP does have the right to stop and ask for documents when exiting the USA and they can examine you when leaving.
As GUwonder alluded, whether one can say no and turn around and leave? Well I don't know. Great question. I've never been in the position to try, I always had to be somewhere so with as little speech as possible I turn over my passport and move on.

again, good luck with all of it.

BTW a long read but http://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=235140 talks about the FEB being outbound at Airport and Land Borders, somewhere around page 23 or 24 You could always email CBP and ask (use a public computer and e-mail i you like) they will tell you specifics.

Ysitincoach

My guess is that you'd have to present ID to CBP solely as a law enforcement officer, just as you would if the police asked to view ID (even as a driver, you could lawfully hold up your operator's license to the closed window of a car and be in compliance with that one), but I too find nothing that states that you must present a passport to CBP, and especially TSA.