knotyeagle

On 30 May I arrived at STL from FLL via Southwest airline. Just as I was approaching the exit point at 0955 the klaxon sounded and the 3 TSA screeners blocked the exit. All screening stopped, no one leaves/no one enters.

I thought it was newsworthy so I got out my iPhone took the video listed above as I was standing where ever other mere mortal was standing wanting to exit. The TSA screener in the photo came up to me and stated no videotaping allowed, I told I thought this was a public area and she said no it was a "sterile area". I told her I was sorry to hear that and continued to the videotape. Remember the idea was to send it to local media for maybe 5 to 15 seconds of use in the story of "security breach" at STL.

The miffed TSA screener (I never got her name but I hope to when I visit STL again) then told someone who came up to me and said put the camera down or he'll arrest me for interference. I asked him if he was a TSM and he said he's a police officer and to stop recording.

The miffed TSA screener disappeared and the "all clear" was sounded. There was a gentleman standing next to me who had DHS neck strap for his ID and I asked him if he was a TSM (he got unnerved at that). He said he was William Switzer the federal security director. I said good you probably have a few TSMs working for you then, why don't you have one come over.

I asked him about TSA policy on photography/video in the sterile area and he said there are no rules against that. I then brought up the TSA web blog stated exactly that as well. At this point the errant TSA screener was out of view and I did not yet have a photo of her. I could only describe her to director Switzer and TSM that had joined us.

Director Switzer became very concerned about who I was and I asked him what difference that makes? Was he concerned that I knew too many acronyms I asked him.

I asked him for is SIDA credentials which he showed to me and gave me his card.

314-656-1140 office
314-709-0064 cell
[email protected]

By this time the police officer who threaten me with arrest for "interference" also showed up and his first statement was "I'm not talking to you". I told him I'd like to see his SIDA credentials and he gave me his card.

Detective Sergeant Lesley F. Williams
314-426-8100
314-551-5717 office
[email protected]

Det. Sgt Williams did indeed walk away at that point ("I'm not talking to you"). As people started to disperse I then saw the errant screener exit the private screening room (the reason I had not seen her earlier). Could not resist the opportunity and took her photo with her standing next to Officer Smith. Officer Smith walked up to me and told me no photos at the airport. I asked him if that was his amendment to the 1st amendment and he restated "no photos at the airport".

While waiting outside for my shuttle to the hotel the local TSA office called me about the incident and explained that indeed the TSA screener was incorrect. I told him until I heard it from her in person (and what her name is) the issue is still open. I told him this was the perfect example of nothing changing at STL since Steve Bierfieldt was detained for having $4700 in cash/checks. The press officer for the local TSA did not know about that incident. I suggested to him that he send me an email and I'll be happy to forward him the TSA settlement.

I did a write-up of the incident along with the photos and sent it federal security director Switzer and Detective Sergeant Williams. No response, no phone call, no email.

Which is why I'm a very big proponent of not filing complaints but instead be brutally confrontational with errant screeners right then/right there.

Caradoc

Did you honestly expect a response? From the TSA? Or from a cop who's sunk so low as to take his orders from the TSA?

knotyeagle

I realize that both the TSA & St. Louis Airport PD were the severely errant ones with Steven Bierfeldt back in 2009 but I was hoping that with the TSA settlement, both entities would have changed their attitude/behavior.

Yes I was obviously wrong in that hope, both the TSA screener & at least two officers at STL PD proved themselves to be just as despot as before.

Confront when in they are in error, do so brutally. Even though the change I cause with errant TSA screeners at the checkpoint is temporary, they did stop their behavior with me.

If anything it shows how effective direct confrontation with screeners is and sending any complaint (email, card, letter to congressperson) is futile & a waste of electrons.

I've accomplished more by posting the incident (with video/photos) on various sites than the non-response I've gotten from federal security director William Switzer or Det. Sgt. Lesley Williams.

I encourage all to utilize the most effective method of change, rather than the least effective one.

ND Sol

So am I understanding this correctly that the TSA detained you (along with others) from exiting the airport?

knotyeagle

That is correct. Look at the video link.

N830MH

I got better idea. If you see AirTrain employee and if they ever harassed you. Just say no. You have walk away from there. Don't try to talk about your information. You have notify the TSA & Port Authority immediately. Just in case. Don't let try to come see you. Just walk away and get on the train. You say "keep mind your own business".

CZBB

18 USC 242: "Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law"

Send a complaint to the AG's office, asking that this officer be arrested pursuant the above statue.

mahohmei

I still fail to see how the TSA has any legal authority to physically prevent you from leaving an area, since they have the same legal authority as mall rent-a-goons. How would I respond to this incident?

- Just walk by the TS"O"s. If physically unable to do that...

- Call 911. Tell the 911 operator that I am being physically prevented from leaving an area, and that I'm heading towards an emergency exit. This is the exact same thing I would do if a rent-a-thug was blocking the exit from a library, shopping mall, etc.

A quick bit of Googling shows that the TSA seems to enjoy terminal lockdowns, but not nearly as much as terminal dumps. Is there any precedent to a passenger defying the TSA's fake lockdown and just leaving?

bocastephen

The airport security guards at EWR (not TSA) have no power - if they tell you to stop taking photos (or to do anything for that matter), you can tell them to buzz off or just ignore them.

Having said that, they *could* run off and call the PA cops - then you are dealing with some of the least bright police in the country. PA police are cops who couldn't get jobs at a real police force. I have seen them run up to people who were taking photos and tell them to stop.

So, here it is in a nutshell - EWR/LGA/JFK are the property of, and owned by the Port Authority - hence, you are on private property when inside their terminals. When on private property, you can be rightly told not to take photos of said private property. In a normal situation (no cops), the private security, landlords or tenants of private property can ask you to leave and you should - but at these airports, the PA cops add the risk of a criminal charge (of some flavor). Now I'm sure 99% of judges would toss the charge(s) if it actually went that far, so it's really up to you how far you want to push it.

Most airports in the US are public property, and thus you do have the legal right to take photos - but again, in dealing with cops, you need to decide how far you want to push it. If you're an "all-in" type of person, you could let them confiscate your camera, memory card, even file charges - then get those charges tossed, your equipment returned and then file a civil suit against the cops and the department for false arrest, etc etc and perhaps settle for some decent money damages that could go towards nicer photo equipment They won't learn their lesson, but you might have a nicer camera or other new toy after the settlement and legal fees.

saulblum

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is a public agency, headed by the governors of New York and New Jersey.

The three airports you list under the control of the PANYNJ are not privately owned.

Does that mean that the agency would ever impose rules that violate the Constitution? Of course not, as we see here with photography.

bocastephen

My understanding (perhaps I am incorrect?) is the PA is a quasi-public/private entity in that the property it owns and operates is not truly public property, but privately owned by the corporation and operated by the corporation on behalf of the public.

saulblum

http://www.panynj.gov/about/history-aviation.html

I am not a lawyer, and will not attempt to parse out to what degree the airports are public property.

It seems to me though that the only reason these rules against photography -- rules, not laws -- have been permitted to stand is because no one has challenged them in court.

Mr. Elliott

[QUOTE=bocastephen;18899194]The airport security guards at EWR (not TSA) have no power - if they tell you to stop taking photos (or to do anything for that matter), you can tell them to buzz off or just ignore them.

So, here it is in a nutshell - EWR/LGA/JFK are the property of, and owned by the Port Authority - hence, you are on private property when inside their terminals. When on private property, you can be rightly told not to take photos of said private property. In a normal situation (no cops), the private security, landlords or tenants of private property can ask you to leave and you should - but at these airports, the PA cops add the risk of a criminal charge (of some flavor). Now I'm sure 99% of judges would toss the charge(s) if it actually went that far, so it's really up to you how far you want to push it.




Just to clarify, both LGA and JFK are not owned by the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey, they are owned by the City of New York and are operated on a long term lease by the PANYNJ. Former NYC Mayor Guiliani hated the PANYNJ and tried to end the leases and form an NYC owned airport operating authority, but was unable to do so.

Current NYC Mayor Bloomberg likes the PANYNJ and even extended their leases so for the next 20 or more years LGA and JFK will continue to be operated by the PANYNJ.

PANYNJ also operates Stewart Airport (SWF) an airport located in the lower Hudson Valley under a long term lease for the airport owner, the State of New York.

The PANYNJ does own outright both EWR and a smaller general aviation airport located about 8 miles north of EWR, Teterboro Airport.

Mr. Elliott

bocastephen

So I would interpret this to mean JFK and LGA are public property regardless of the PA presence, while EWR is quasi-private. Just my interpretation in terms of who can make the rules and what weight those rules carry.

ND Sol

I agree. They are public property. SWF used to be a private airport, but no longer is. There is only one private airport at which the TSA operates and it didn't open that long ago.

Look at who runs PANYNJ (and note that its website is a .gov)