Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Travel Safety/Security > Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate
Reload this Page >

Double Opt-Out at Dulles this morning, barred from my flight

Double Opt-Out at Dulles this morning, barred from my flight

Old Nov 17, 2011, 4:59 pm
  #16  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: WAS
Programs: AMEX Platinum, Global Entry, Priority Pass, SPG Gold, HHonors Gold
Posts: 1,594
Originally Posted by Mientree
Even leaving the right, fair, and moral aspects out of it... Those are not the only two options available.
I meant options the TSA was willing to offer. The WTMD is another option, but the TSA did not intend to offer it. Are there other options I am missing?
14940674 is offline  
Old Nov 17, 2011, 7:44 pm
  #17  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by mikeef
Who took your DL and BP to photocopy it. The TSA?

Mike
The TSA took my DL and BP to photocopy them. I should have pressed for a Privacy Act notice.
mybodyismyown is offline  
Old Nov 17, 2011, 7:52 pm
  #18  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by clrankin
Good luck with going through security. Armed with this knowledge I will not be flying out of IAD anymore. (Actually looking for a small commercial airport in WV without the porn viewers that I can fly from... willing to drive 3-4 hours to do so if necessary.)
Thank you for the good wishes. United was absolutely wonderful about changing my ticket, and everyone at the United counter wanted to hear the story in detail because they couldn't believe TSA had ejected a Premier level flyer. I think double opt-outs aren't very common. The United employee who finally got me switched onto the flight from Reagan told me, "I think you're right. Those scanners, they shouldn't do that to people. It just isn't decent. It's not decent."

At Reagan, Terminal A, no scanners still for the Frontier/AirTran/Air Canada / Sun Country / Jet Blue gates.

And to clarify: I did not expect to have to double opt-out, and I never expected the TSA to let me choose metal detector instead. I said that to point out the stupidity of their traumatizing me and wasting an hour of ten people's time to keep me from using it while I watched 100 other people get through the checkpoint with metal detector only. Heck, even my husband got metal detector only and made his flight. It was a way of emphasizing to everyone present how their tormenting me was prima facie absurd and unnecessary.
mybodyismyown is offline  
Old Nov 17, 2011, 8:22 pm
  #19  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Dulles, VA
Programs: UA Life Gold, Marriott Life Titanium
Posts: 2,757
Well, you fought for your rights - then handed over your personal information. Next time, don't do that.

And, I tend to agree with the comment that it's becoming harder to get through an airport without going through a scanner or getting a pat-down. I plan on being one of the first in a class-action as soon as further evidence is gathered that the "safe radiation" in use isn't - as anyone with any understanding of physics knows already.
catocony is offline  
Old Nov 17, 2011, 8:54 pm
  #20  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: WAS
Programs: AMEX Platinum, Global Entry, Priority Pass, SPG Gold, HHonors Gold
Posts: 1,594
Originally Posted by mybodyismyown
And to clarify: I did not expect to have to double opt-out, and I never expected the TSA to let me choose metal detector instead. I said that to point out the stupidity of their traumatizing me and wasting an hour of ten people's time to keep me from using it while I watched 100 other people get through the checkpoint with metal detector only. Heck, even my husband got metal detector only and made his flight. It was a way of emphasizing to everyone present how their tormenting me was prima facie absurd and unnecessary.
Sorry if I missed this in your responses, but if you "never expected the TSA to let [you] choose metal detector instead", then what did you expect? That IAD wouldn't have AIT? It seems as if you have limited your options here.
14940674 is offline  
Old Nov 17, 2011, 9:02 pm
  #21  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: twitter:TSAABUSEWATCH
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by 14940674
I meant options the TSA was willing to offer. The WTMD is another option, but the TSA did not intend to offer it. Are there other options I am missing?
Yes. The TSA Check point guards could have treated her as a human being with civil rights.
TsaAbuseWatch is offline  
Old Nov 17, 2011, 9:09 pm
  #22  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 1,007
Originally Posted by phoebepontiac
I don't know, flight crews get a pass. Some politicians and dignitaries get a pass. Now perhaps military members will be getting a pass. Maybe people who have in the past been aggressively sexually penetrated while being screened at a checkpoint should get a pass, too.
How about all law abiding U.S. citizens get a pass? How many terrorists have been caught by irradiating them or groping their genitals?
Pesky Monkey is offline  
Old Nov 17, 2011, 9:39 pm
  #23  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Southwest Florida
Programs: AA lifetime Gold , DL Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 572
Originally Posted by mybodyismyown
The TSA took my DL and BP to photocopy them. I should have pressed for a Privacy Act notice.
The TSA will tell you the privacy act does not apply to them, like all the other laws they are ignoring.

One of our resident lawyers here on this forum PTravel has said never give the TSA your ID during secondary screening, only showing it to the TDC or at the gate if requested which is required by federal law.

Remember the TSA mindset is they consider everyone a terrorist until they clear you at the checkpoint, basically you are guilty until proven innocent, a total opposite of our legal system.

Mr. Elliott
Mr. Elliott is offline  
Old Nov 17, 2011, 9:51 pm
  #24  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: KRNT
Programs: AS MVPG, Hilton Gold
Posts: 359
Originally Posted by TsaAbuseWatch
Yes. The TSA Check point guards could have treated her as a human being with civil rights.
I'm the last person who would defend the TSA, but I was at the checkpoint when OP went through. All the blue shirts I saw were quite respectful.
Skiff is offline  
Old Nov 17, 2011, 11:03 pm
  #25  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 319
Originally Posted by Pesky Monkey
How about all law abiding U.S. citizens get a pass? How many terrorists have been caught by irradiating them or groping their genitals?
Oh yeah, don't misunderstand my comment. I was reacting to another poster's idea that this particular passenger had no right to expect she might be treated differently than anyone else, that it was silly to even ask. Of course I think we all deserve to fly without our bodies being violated.
phoebepontiac is offline  
Old Nov 18, 2011, 12:03 am
  #26  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
Programs: QF PS, EK-Gold, Security Theatre Critic
Posts: 6,639
Originally Posted by WillCAD
Trying to transit any major airport and having even the least expectation of being able to double opt-out and still fly is setting yourself up for disappointment.

These things are going to be everywhere within the next 24-36 months (I think the original timeline was to have one at every checkpoint in the US by the end of 2014?) We are more than a 18 months into the process of raping the taxpayers' wallets to fund the rapes of their bodies and Constitutional rights, and the AIT scanners are so prevalent now that it is almost impossible to fly without having to encounter one.

If you encounter one, and don't wish to go through it, you will have to opt-out, and if you opt-out, you will either get a pat-down or you won't fly. It's just that simple.

At those checkpoints which don't have an AIT, or which have the AIT shut down or are only using it on a small percentage of the travelers who transit there, the possibility of being selected at random for more intense screening is always there, and more intense screening means either AIT or pat-down.

The TSA is like a Terminator - it can't be reasoned with, it can't be bargained with, it doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear - and it absolutely will not stop, EVER, until the Bill of Rights is dead.

No other choices exist - submit, or don't fly.

OP, I commend you on your willingness to allow them to deny you flight; in that situation, many people would have caved and taken either the AIT or the rubdown. But sooner or later, you're going to have to admit to yourself that even attempting to get through an airport today unmolested is like hitting on twenty - the odds are VERY long against you. Just trying it puts you in the position you were in today, where your prior traumatic experience reduces you to tears and ruins your day.

Perhaps someday the country will come to its senses and stop abusing the citizenry in this egregious manner, but until then, we have to get through life the best we can, and that means that you have to be prepared when you go to the airport and are confronted with two unacceptable choices, and not allow it to re-traumatize you.
I'm going to quote your whole post because everyone should read it a second time. This is what it's coming to.

OP, this is not an attack on you; indeed I applaud your willingness to stand for your principles. But WillCAD is right; the days of using FriendlySkies' list to choose an airport and swapping SDOO hints are numbered. If there is not a significant change of direction soon, there will be no way to avoid the scanner/gropedown choice.

When TSA first started rolling out the scanners, some people here were adamant that the scanners were too expensive and too slow, and that TSA would never be able to install them at all airports/checkpoints/lanes or use them for primary screening on all passengers.

See where we are today. "The TSA plans to deploy 1,275 backscatter and millimeter-wave scanners covering more than half its security lanes by the end of 2012 and 1,800 covering nearly all lanes by 2014."

And now some people are counting on Trusted Traveler to help them avoid the NoS. When there is a scanner in every lane of every checkpoint of every airport, and the WTMDs have all been mothballed, let me know how that works out.
RadioGirl is online now  
Old Nov 18, 2011, 12:09 am
  #27  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by Skiff
I'm the last person who would defend the TSA, but I was at the checkpoint when OP went through. All the blue shirts I saw were quite respectful.
Wow, interesting connection! Someone made a supportive comment to my husband on the secure side of the line this morning also. Perhaps that was you?

As I stated above, the only reason I had a ticket from IAD was that I was misinformed about the presence of blue box scanners. I have gone to extraordinary lengths: cancelling trips, taking trains, driving two hours out of the way, paying double for certain airlines to get to a checkpoint without blue boxes. I can't really explain why I had the wrong information about Dulles.

I am actually coming away from this experience more hopeful than I was last week, because I was able to exert control over what happens to my body and to refuse the TSA's disgusting and offensive suggestions about what I should allow them to do to it. And as Skiff says, TSA people were respectful of my refusal and my reasoning even when I lost my cool. That might indicate some level of compassion for me, or just explicit instructions not to be confrontational. But I maintain, every last one of those TSA employees is personally responsible for the pain they are causing to innocent travelers.

To understand why TSA screeners claim they aren't responsible even as they watch with their own eyes how much distress they cause, how much senseless violence they do to human dignity, I read: http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pol116/milgram.htm

"The disappearance of a sense of responsibility is the most far-reaching consequence of submission to authority."
mybodyismyown is offline  
Old Nov 18, 2011, 6:04 am
  #28  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: LIS/ATL/other
Programs: UA 1K, Avis PC, Hertz PC, Sixt Plat, Marriott Gold, HH Silver
Posts: 1,983
Originally Posted by Mr. Elliott
One of our resident lawyers here on this forum PTravel has said never give the TSA your ID during secondary screening, only showing it to the TDC or at the gate if requested which is required by federal law.
In practice, how do you do that? During secondary TSA tells you to put all your belongings in the gray bin and that you can't touch them while they go through them. How do you prevent them from going through your wallet/purse and seeing your ID?
CaptainMiles is offline  
Old Nov 18, 2011, 8:22 am
  #29  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somewhere between here and there...
Programs: WWF, Appalachian Mountain Club
Posts: 11,594
Originally Posted by CaptainMiles
In practice, how do you do that? During secondary TSA tells you to put all your belongings in the gray bin and that you can't touch them while they go through them. How do you prevent them from going through your wallet/purse and seeing your ID?
After the TDC but before the belt, seal you ID in an envelope. TSA cannot compel you to open it, nor can they open it themselves. Of course and as always, a big YMMV.
tkey75 is offline  
Old Nov 18, 2011, 8:39 am
  #30  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: DL, WN, US, Avis, AA
Posts: 662
Originally Posted by CaptainMiles
In practice, how do you do that? During secondary TSA tells you to put all your belongings in the gray bin and that you can't touch them while they go through them. How do you prevent them from going through your wallet/purse and seeing your ID?
I place all my "pocket contents" including ID inside my laptop case and then lock it prior to placing it on the belt. I suppose TSA could cut the lock off but at least I've made it difficult for them to access anything without my knowledge and active cooperation.
T-the-B is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.