"You chose to opt out."
 

I've opted out every time I've traveled thus far, with no exceptions.

In ATL on Friday morning. Went through Sky Priority lane. Had to opt out. Was asked to stand aside. Couldn't see my baggage coming out of the chute.

I told the clerk, "I can't see my bags. I'm entitled to see my bags at all times."

She said, "You chose to opt out. You need to wait here until someone comes to get you."

"But I can't see my bags. Am I not entitled to see my possessions at all times?"

She audibly sighed. All that did was make her realize I was going to be a pain in the backside until someone came and rescued her from me.

I repeated myself as she started walking away. The "male assist" arrived about 10 seconds later. He was very professional and the first thing he told me was to face my possessions. All was fine then.

Why is it that they simply can't follow their own procedures? I have an iPad, a laptop, my wallet, and keys in my possession -- all but the laptop is in my briefcase and I don't want it out of my sight -- is this really too much to ask?

Yes, you are asking too much. How can the bad TSO's steal your stuff? Please not that only some of them steal, not all of them. Also, how else will they try to persuade people to not opt out? I'm glad that you were persistent and kept repeating yourself until you got your way.

You will not like this answer, but the TSO's were following the procedures. I have pointed out before that our "procedures" no longer require the TSOs to ensure that the passenger is able to see their property. Of course, I pointed that out many months ago (perhaps close to a year?), and it was only a brief disucssion, so I understand why you are unaware of this change.

If we can't see them, easier for you (TSA in general, not directed at you personally) to steal them?

You realize that this is in direct conflict with what the TSA website says, correct?

You must like stealing our stuff then. Get rid of the boxes and we won't have this problem.

This is a major issue with me when I go through ORD, but I can't seem to find that posting about seeing your possessions on the TSA site. Any links?

Does the TSA really not understand that it is "policies" like this that EARN them the bashing and crappy reputation among the public and media?

MEM concourse C is set up the same way. Opt out and it's a license to steal. But no one will take your things one TSO told me, this only a week or so after one MEM screener had been caught stealing.

And it's not just TSOs I'm worried about. Anyone could walk off with my stuff. I often travel with a lot of cash because I'm going to countries where credit cards are not accepted.

I am not a lawyer or law enforcement, but LOGIC (damn I did it again) would say that you don't want me to lose sight of my belongings since someone (TSA or a passenger) can do something to my belongings. Get it right the first time, or when the camera record is used as evidence in a hearing, it will show I was out of contact with my items and NO one could stop something from happening. As i tell them, I am doing my part to make sure they do their job - protect everything involved with air travel. Items left unattended could eventually cause an issue. My getting to my destination and finding something wrong, then filing the police report and having them review the camera PROVES their process is not secure. End of subject with them. By that point the groper shows up to play with my private parts.

"The website is out of date" :rolleyes: is the answer you'll get at best; most of the time the TSA workers will simply ignore you or shout at you. It's how they work.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/customer/claims/pack.shtm

Even if that were true, it is a security risk.

Every passenger must see there stuff at all times or it is very likely something will be missed and slip through.

I would suggest that TSA employees are not supervised properly nor subject to any meaningful corrective action for not complying with known procedures.

The problem with the above is the use of the word "known" :D

As TSORon has told us:

It would certainly be helpful if there was a resource that travelers could refer to that stated exactly what the rules of this TSA game are and that TSA agrees is the standard under which they operate.

What we have today is unacceptable, we don't know what is required, nor do we have anyway to determine is any one TSA employee is following procedures or not.

I think the simple answer is to file a complaint on each and every TSA screening pointing out that the public has no way of knowing if TSA is in fact complying with SOP.

It is clear that TSA doesnt care about people's belongings.

Do they even have any clue what stolen items can cause a passenger?! It is stressful and a hassel for US citizens. But for a none citizent !

Me, a legal resident, have a resident card , swedish passport, wallet and so on in my purse.

A resident card can take months to replace and it costs several $ 100.00.

A swedish passport can only be issued at an swedish embassy or consulate in USA. And you have to go there in person 2 times.To apply for a new passport and to pick it up. For me it means to go to either SF. or SD., since LA doesnt have one. Plus you need a resident card to prove that you live here legally. And also a swedish proof that you are swedsih citizent.

I always travel with a big purse, and I have had other passengers picking up my purse. For what reason i dont know. I never waited long enough to find that out.

So that TSA makes it it difficult for us to see our things is really bad.
My travelling life is in my purse and without it I will have hell for a few months.

What goes around comes around,one day TSA is going to be the pax. And they will be suprised how much fun that is.

Just a reminder, folks, to lock up everything you have with a TSA-proof lock (you can search for them on various websites), so nobody can easily get into your carryons without your permission.

Take off your watch, wallet, etc. and lock those into your carryon before you get to the checkpoint. If you have a laptop, get a Kensington lock and secure it to your rollaboard.

(Personally, I even "forget" to remove my Kippie from the carryon and have yet to be questioned about it...)

I find that loudly repeating over and over that I need to see my belongings gets the job done. If I'm separated from them for more than a couple of seconds, you bet I'll be calling for a LEO.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/custome...s/protect.shtm

Emphasis is in the original. Copied from the website TODAY. I carry a printout of this page, with this line highlighted, that I will use if/when I have to escalate with a power-tripping TSO.

If what you say is correct, and I have no reason to doubt you, then TSA's/your "procedures" in addition to being well outside of the realm of common sense would seem to open you up to increased TSA and personal liability from theft from passengers.

:rolleyes:

I would like to point out that I and thousands of other travellers did not choose to opt out.

TSA chose to implement a system which penalises a large segment of the population. I don't believe that this was intentional, but I do believe that they failed to consider this possibility. Unfortunately many of their staff also seem to fail to understand that not everyone chooses to opt out, either.

Close to a year ago, you wrote this:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15027986-post491.html

+1000

Each time I get a clearly impatient, punitive grope designed to 'encourage' me to use the NoS, I want to point out to the the groper that even if I stood in the NoS, I would not be able to assume and hold the position, so I would still get a full-body grope.

Of course, gropes and searches should not be used for social engineering purposes, but they are.

I always choose to OPT-OUT, and to always keep my possession in my sight (except of course when they are inside the machine). When I request to keep my possessions in sight this seems to annoy some of them more than others. When this occurs I just inform them that I do not trust people I do not know, and that I do not know them.

If I am forced to opt out (no chance of SDOO) my new SOP is to not send my stuff through the x-ray until the TSO doing my pat down is present.

A bit harsh. Yes, the information he gives here is often at odds with the TSA website, other airports and what frequent flyers simply see from day to day.

That is more likely due to his just following orders at SAT without being the least bit concerned whether those orders are correct. Pretty much the same thing happens nationwide and the TSA does nothing about it. More evidence of how badly broken that organization is.

The website still says to keep an eye on our belongings. It's your job to obey the rules, not declare the ones you don't like to no longer be valid.

The website is out-of-date.

Out of an abundance of caution, no doubt, because if TSA provides accurate information on the website, it will enable the terrorists.

Just once, in an interview with Nappy/Pistole/B-Bob/Ni-co, I wish the interviewer would address this issue: "The website has been out-of-date, inconsistent, self-contradictory and basically useless since its inception. Is there no reliable source to assist travelers in preparing for the checkpoint experience?"

Here's what I would do:

"You opted out."

"Yes, I did. And I intend to keep my possessions in my sight. If that's not acceptable to you, I suggest you call your supervisor and a LEO."

And I'd then move to where I could see my possessions.

Oh, they understand. They just don't care.

Mike

Retaliation for opt out

And those members of the flying public who do not hang out on FT - they learn this how?

By being barked at and written up if they expect the checkpoint experience to reflect what is on the TSA website? No chance to take extra care in securing belongings going through the xray becausee they naively expected to keep their belongings in sight at all times?

keep us informed how this works. this might be the way to go.

Sounds like yet another time to send the TSA an email of complaint, indicating that someone purporting to be a TSA out of a certain airport is putting out information that is patently false and presenting it as true.
I did this once before on another issue (going through with a walking boot/cast on) and I received an apology and a statement that the purported TSO did give out misinformation (their word)...

I now carry that email with me when I go through a checkpoint. If they have an issue, I immediately escalate to a "suit"...

And what could possibly be the reason or motivation for such a procedure? Why is it not in everyone's interest that passenger's possessions are watched carefully at all times? Please don't tell me that somehow happens automatically - that theft by another passenger "cannot happen" with so many TSOs around.

You wonder why people are against TSA? This is why.

My standard line is, "For my protection and yours, I'm keeping my bags within sight at all times." There's no reasonable objection to that.

Mike

Well, THERE's your problem. ;)

I don't wish to derail the topic, but I do have some inquiry to make about the above.

The Swedish consular officials want to see a US resident card to prove that you live in the US legally prior to issuing you a Swedish passport? Having just left the Swedish embassy here in DC today, I was made aware of them issuing Swedish passports to Swedish citizens not resident in the US, so any such "requirement" must not be applicable to all Swedish citizens in the US.

I am curious, why would the Swedish government consider this kind of information a requirement to issue a Swedish passport to a Swedish citizen? Other than if to validate that you are residing outside of Sweden for purposes of Skatteverket (Swedish tax authorities) tracking Swedish citizens and updating the Big Brother population registers, I don't see a reason for the demand made of you (and presumably at least some other Swedish citizens living in the US).

What is Swedish proof of Swedish citizenship for the government minions involved in fulfillment of Swedish passport applications? Skatteverket paperwork in the form of the full "personbevis"? Other than for people who may have been naturalized as Swedish citizens, I cannot recall the Swedish police requiring a whole lot more than that when issuing Swedish passports as long as there are two natural-born Swedish "witnesses" who sign the documents. [This last thing leads to some interesting scenes at a Stockholm police HQ where non-Swedish citizens with no Swedish documents (other than Swedish residency stamps, digitized picture included, in foreign passports) don't count as a "witness" when applying for a Swedish passports for natural-born Swedish citizen offspring. And so some such foreigners and/or their Swedish spouses/sambos go up to random people to ask them to sign the documents as a "witness" because the documents won't be accepted otherwise. A circus of sort too. :D]

I had the same experience. I tried the advice of someone who claims to be a TSO. The TSO summoned a supervisor, my BP and ID were taken to be copied for a 'report' that the supervisor assured me was just routine, he makes a report any time he is called to the checkpoint.

I showed him the post from the TSO with the information that was clearly wrong. Supervisor took a copy of that message and reminded me that terrorists testing the system would act the same way and that someone on the internet posing as a TSA employee giving out advice could also be a terrorist.

Bwahahaha.

So, can we have FT ban these few purported TSOs for putting out false information? They blatantly post under the guise of "I'm a TSO; I know the truth". Surely something can be done...

You are absolutely correct! That "something" is called the "Ignore List" and I highly recommend it. Just sayin' ,,, :D

Last time I applied for a new swedish passport, I am born in Sweden, I had to show my resident card.

So I guess , maybe, that want to know where you live.

If you can prove you are a visitor and lost your passport, like my third daugther did in Feb.,you get a new passport.

She had to prove in SD., that she was swedish and she had no other ID. than an italian id. since she lives in Italy.

She had hard time being approved. That even if she sounds VERY swedish.

Also if you apply for a passport in Sweden you do need a "personbevis" and to show your residentcard.